Showing posts with label John Wheeler. Show all posts
Showing posts with label John Wheeler. Show all posts

Aditya Prasad

André A. Pais Curious, how does this map onto the AtR model (in your view)?

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Edited

André A. Pais

Aditya Prasad probably it doesn't. It can be read as merely pointing to I Am.

Yet if we get more creative, we can see I Am (identification with consciousness), but also non-dual (phenomena being one with consciousness, and consciousness itself being one with the absolute).

Finally we can see that notions of consciousness or phenomena are designated out of the absolute, which is nothing but appearance and emptiness. The absolute ground is luminous empty appearances, which is designated as consciousness, phenomena, etc.

I shared recently the simplified version of the AtR model (I am, non-dual, anatta, shunyata) with John and he said that all that has been clear for him for quite a while.

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Aditya Prasad

André A. Pais I must admit that I don't yet understand the distinction between consciousness and awareness (or the absolute). I think of luminosity as another label for consciousness.

As for the simplified model being clear to John, what do you mean? Are there aspects there that aren't covered in AtR? (I've read it a few times and love it BTW, if it's the one I'm thinking of. I might ask you questions about it later...)

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André A. Pais

Aditya Prasad by John I mean John Wheeler. 😅

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Soh Wei Yu

André A. Pais he isn't clear even though he thought so. He went through I AM, then impersonality (he calls 'no self'), then one mind sort of nondual. Closer to Thusness Stage 4. He is clear about 1 to 4 but not 5 and onwards.

Session Start: Tuesday, January 20, 2009

(7:54 PM) AEN:

john wheeler: "i found that it is turned into a practice, the notion of the practice or attainment is based on the assumption that u have separated from the natural being itself. Essentially you find that the notion that arise that you stand separate from the being, and that becomes the basis of all the troubles. You can't be a seeker or a sufferer, or have a question or a doubt or a problem as

that pure non conceptual presence, and so that root of all of that activity is the assumption that I have moved apart from that, that I have somehow stood apart from pure being itself. When we question that to basically look and see, have I separated from that? Have I moved away from the pure awareness itself, however we want to point to that... to see if there is any evidence that there has

been any actual separation, and what we find is the exact same insight that we saw originally... all that we discover is our identity as that pure being itself. Exactly like you say, we don't find anything, we find that the assumed separation isn't real, hasn't happened."

(8:05 PM) AEN: -- from an mp3

(8:05 PM) AEN: "....At this point you can dispense with making a division between thoughts and awareness. That is good in the beginning as a means to make awareness evident. However, from another angle, thoughts, feelings and perceptions arise from, exist upon and subside into awareness. They have no real substance or independent existence apart from awareness. So they are only awareness

(8:06 PM) AEN: appearing as those forms, like waves emerging from the sea. It is all one substance. There is only one awareness, one presence. There is no separation possible, because there is no division in reality. There are no objects in ultimate truth, only awareness. There is

no one standing apart from that. Everything that appears is only that. All thoughts and feelings are only that. All is that. You are that. So what can you gain and lose at any time?" -- "You Were Never Born", John Wheeler

Session Start: Wednesday, January 21, 2009

(10:40 AM) Thusness: What John Wheeler said is quite true but only from the point of view of non-dual. Therefore it is insight that liberates. There are 2 important insights about our nature, one being non-dual and the other being the empty nature. John Wheeler is more about non-dual but our emptiness nature are equally important. In whatever case, both insights must lead a practitioner towards effortlessness

(10:41 AM) Thusness: and spontaneity as non-dual luminosity and emptiness are the nature of pristine awareness

(10:51 AM) Thusness: What John Wheeler said in the mp3 is good. After that realisation, practitioner realises it is insight that liberates and there is never a separation but the practitioner must also realised the power of the bond. Like a magical spell that blinds us from seeing the truth of our nature. This 'strength' if overlooked is equally misleading. One can teach and device a method like Dzogchen to

(10:54 AM) Thusness: experience whatever arises openly and fearlessly as all is Awareness but to deny the 'strength' of the bond and over-emphasis that nothing need to be done is very misleading. Just like reality is not what it seems to be but there is no denial of reality,

(10:56 AM) Thusness: after non-dual insight, the way of practice is pathless; it does not mean there is no practice needed.

Session Start: Friday, 20 November, 2009

...

(2:01 PM) AEN: btw i dun really understand. is john wheeler's realisation about impersonality or is it about no-self and whats the diff 😛

(2:21 PM) Thusness: John wheeler realized certain aspect of no-self

(2:21 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:21 PM) Thusness: Not anatta but close to phase 4

(2:21 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:22 PM) Thusness: The sense of dualism is still there

(2:22 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:22 PM) Thusness: Because he will not be able to integrate the transient

(2:23 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:23 PM) Thusness: He can however realize he is lived by a greater life

(2:24 PM) AEN: icic.. is that what u mean by feeling God

(2:24 PM) Thusness: All manifestations is the doing of this One life

(2:24 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:25 PM) AEN: eckhart tolle said "Many expressions that are in common usage, and sometimes the structure of language itself, reveal the fact that people don't know who they are. You say: "He lost his life" or "my life," as if life were something that you can possess or lose. The truth is: you don't have a life, you are life. The One Life, the one consciousness that pervades the entire universe and takes temporary form to experience itself as a stone or blade of grass, as an animal, a person, a star or a galaxy.

Can you sense deep within that you already know that? Can you sense that you already are That?"

(2:25 PM) Thusness: This One Life is same to u as well as me.

(2:25 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:26 PM) Thusness: This is a very subtle extrapolation

(2:27 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:27 PM) Thusness: But experientially it does appears so

(2:27 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:28 PM) Thusness: It has a lot to do with the spontaneous arising and impersonality (deconstruction of personality)

(2:29 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:31 PM) Thusness: Therefore when one focus and refine the 4 aspects i spoke abt without even arising the insight of non-dual, one can still lead to such an experience

This is stage 2

(2:31 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:31 PM) Thusness: Get it?

(2:31 PM) AEN: ya think so

(2:32 PM) AEN: so stage 2 is related to impersonality?

(2:33 PM) Thusness: Further to that one will want to penetrate into 3.

(2:34 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:34 PM) Thusness: Re-read phase one to 3

(2:34 PM) AEN: ok

(2:35 PM) Thusness: Phase 4 is strictly non-dual

(2:35 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:35 PM) Thusness: Though non-dual still having inherent view

(2:37 PM) Thusness: So a practitioner still does not see the truth of the relative

The absolute still seem special

(2:37 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:38 PM) Thusness: That is One Mind

(2:38 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:40 PM) AEN: The "vision" of truth appears new because it was not noticed before. Whatever we are and the world is, is already the fact. There is no attainment involved in being what you are. That is the constant space of life, awareness or being in which all appears. It includes silence and sound, activity and stillness, form and emptiness, knowledge and ignorance, and all other dualities and opposites. Your natural condition is not a state within the appearances but the spacious heart of reality which contains and embraces them all. It is like a bright mirror in which diverse reflections rise and set. The mirror remains as it is and bears no relation to the presence or absence of its reflections. The mirror cannot be limited by or identified with any of the reflections appearing in it, nor does it grasp or resist them. For their part, the reflections have no substance or independent nature apart from the mirror. In the same way, all that is, was or ever will be is contained in the timeless light of your true nature. The strange and wonderful thing is that this has always been so.

If this is not noticed, it gets pointed out and recognized, and the true perspective is restored. It is as simple as that. - john wheeler

this is like One Mind?

(2:44 PM) AEN: btw i just remembered a talk given by ven shen kai in the early 80s where he described about how one dissolves the self into the universe substance that is no different from all the buddhas... like the self dissolve and merge into space... and that while he was doing puja he totally dissolved into a place far away but later got back. but later he dissolved again. i think he's sort of like describing stage 3 right?

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Soh Wei Yu

(2:45 PM) AEN: i think i sent u that mp3 before long ago

(2:47 PM) Thusness: In phase 4, a practitioner will be obsessed with this substratum in a non-dual context.

(2:48 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:51 PM) Thusness: U must understand phase 5-7 is refining the insight of the same experience of 4

(2:52 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:56 PM) Thusness: U so clearly see that non-dual is implicit as there never is any agent apart from the ongoing phenomenality

(2:57 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:57 PM) Thusness: Then u realized the true meaning of anatta and emptiness

(2:57 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:57 PM) Thusness: And move from disassociation to self liberation

(2:58 PM) AEN: icic..

(3:00 PM) Thusness: Seems like talking to different practitioners help u understand the 7 phases but don't make it as an absolute model.

(3:00 PM) AEN: oic..

...

2010:

Session Start: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010

(12:22 PM) AEN: i think last time john wheeler talk about the i am/being/witness, then in the recent book he changed alot and talked about 'beyond consciousness', beyond the being and the witness, and he said "Consciousness appears as a transient state on your original condition. It is intimately tied to the presence of the

(12:23 PM) AEN: body-mind, which reflects the light of awareness, allowing consciousness to manifest in a tangible way.'

the presence of the body-mind is a necessary requirement for consciousness to manifest and for awareness to become aware that it is. Just as sunlight and reflected sunlight are really not two separate things, neither are non-dual awareness and manifested consciousness actually different.

(12:23 PM) AEN: You are that which was present before consciousness appeared on you. Before consciousness appeared, you were, but you did not know yourself or have any sense of existence. That is the absolute, non-dual or perfect state.

(12:26 PM) AEN: ...If consciousness is only a modification of the absolute, non-dual reality, then consciousness as such does not truly exist, since it has no actual independent nature. Consciousness appears but it has never truly existed as an independent reality. All there is, is the unconditioned, absolute, non-dual source. That absolute reality is all there is, and it is all that we have ever been. There has never been anything else except this. http://www.non-dualitypress.com/.../The%20Light%20Behind...

(12:46 PM) AEN: seeker posted in DhO haha http://www.dharmaoverground.org/.../messag.../message/392145

(6:17 PM) Thusness: Yes. John Wheeler is beginning to realize 'transience'

(6:17 PM) AEN: but he still talks about an eternal absolute beyond consciousness a bit confusing

(6:19 PM) Thusness: yes

(6:19 PM) AEN: "Consciousness is duality itself. You are prior to consciousness, prior to being, prior to presence, prior to the knower, prior to stillness."

(6:20 PM) Thusness: yes

(6:20 PM) Thusness: i told u before there is a desync of view and experience

(6:21 PM) Thusness: it is difficult to arise insight and one will rest in the non-conceptuality personifying it into an ultimate source

(6:22 PM) Thusness: seems to be a struggle to realize the nature of the transient who is seeker?

(6:22 PM) AEN: i dunnu.. never knew him b4. oic

(6:22 PM) Thusness: i din see the nick 'seeker'

(6:22 PM) Thusness: in dho

(6:23 PM) AEN: ya but Teck Cheong Han and seeker writing style the same 😛

(6:24 PM) Thusness: so u guess one ah

(6:24 PM) AEN: ya lol

(6:24 PM) AEN: anyway he also talked about the same things

(6:25 PM) Thusness: yes

(6:27 PM) AEN: btw i think i know john wheeler suddenly changed, i remember before he wrote that book many months back i sent him a link to the six stages, then inside there, longchen commented on john wheeler's article:

This is not exactly true... He sees presences as separate from thoughts...

What he percieved is thru 'the eternal witness' or pure observer... which is a very subtle witnessing... or 'cross referencing'.

This pure observer is also within the flow... it is not unchanging...In fact, it is changing all the time... in the stream too...so to speak

http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/210722...

(6:27 PM) AEN: then in the book he wrote about the witness and consciousness being transient also

(6:31 PM) Thusness: the right view is just a pointer

(6:31 PM) Thusness: because the mind is unable to see clearly the nature of reality

(6:32 PM) Thusness: the dualistic mind either sees only the mirror or is lost in the images of the appearances

(6:32 PM) Thusness: it cannot see the nature of the appearances

(6:33 PM) AEN: oic..

(6:35 PM) Thusness: first have the experience of non-dual and further deconstruct all the mental constructs (self, objects and prepositional phrases "in/out, here/there..etc")

then later u begin to realize what is meant by 'inherent' in Buddhism

(6:37 PM) AEN: icic..

(6:39 PM) Thusness: many of the 'Awareness practices' tend to teach non-duality by disassociation. This is not non-dual, direct approach.

(6:42 PM) Thusness: Only through the realization of the anatta nature of the transient can a practitioner sees the 'pathless path'

(6:43 PM) Thusness: and this implies realizing that the transient is the very Reality that is non-dual, luminous yet empty.

(6:44 PM) AEN: oic..

(6:46 PM) Thusness: if u cannot understand the transient in the way that is presented by Peter Fenner, then u will why do we stressed so much about the transient

(6:48 PM) Thusness: if u see that there is truly no coming/going, here/there, in/out in manifestation, then u being realize both the 'Ultimate and Transient' share the same non-dual luminous essence and empty nature.

(6:50 PM) Thusness: A practitioner must continue to refine the 'view' till he is completely clear what is really blinding him.

2010:

(7:44 PM) Thusness: Some mistaken "I AMness" as non-dual in non-dual teaching.

(7:45 PM) Thusness: some have experience of non-dual but knows not the knot that blinds them. like John Wheeler. Some is clear about non-dual but is still attached to the One Mind.

(7:46 PM) Thusness: some totally eliminate the background and is clear that the formless background is simply another manifestation.

(7:47 PM) AEN: oic..

(7:48 PM) Thusness: some sees clearly the non-dual yet empty nature and maturing the insight realizes that the direct path is the natural state of self-liberation. But it is not as u described. and has nothing to do with what u said..

(7:49 PM) Thusness: it is clear seeing of the non-dual and empty nature of all arisings that lead to self liberation

(7:49 PM) Thusness: because the approach has nothing to do with dis-association.

(7:50 PM) Thusness: so the 'freeing of the inherent and dualistic' tendencies at that moment of 'seeing' is liberation. By definition, the absence of these tendencies is liberation.

(7:52 PM) Thusness: so practice becomes dynamic

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Soh Wei Yu

2010:

(7:46 PM) AEN: john wheeler: Like anything else, the "sense of I am" is still an appearance, an experience. Realize that the "sense of I am " is not what you are. You are TO WHOM even that appears. What you are has no "I" sense at all. There is no "I" in non-conceptual awareness. It is not even looking at anything, because it is one without a second. The observer and the observed both appear in your non-conceptual reality. Do not confuse what you are with the "observer". That also is a limited thing, an appearance. You are beyond the observer also.

.... Reality, your true nature itself, has no center or reference point. It is not in the head, in the body, or anywhere else. All appearances arise in that which has no position, reference point or boundary and which is your natural condition. A subtle reference of what we are to a location still implies a specific "I" that is able to be located. But pure being or awareness is "no thing". It has no position, no time, no space, no location. All of those only apply to a thing. But your real nature is not an object, not a thing. The basis of the troubles is the separate "I" notion. If there is any subtle belief in the "I", the mind will attempt to give it some position, definition, location or concept. Why? Because it has no substance. It

(7:47 PM) AEN: It needs to wrap itself in some clothing to have any semblance of being. One solution is to try to pull away all the landing zones. That is potentially an endless undertaking. It is so easy for the "I" notion to creep back into the proceedings. That is often the blind spot. The nature of a blind spot is that you cannot see it because you are looking through it and not recognizing that fact. It is like looking through your glasses to find the glasses you assume are lost. The clear and direct solution is to examine the validity of the "I" notion itself. Do not settle for pulling away the leaves and branches, but go for the root.

(7:49 PM) Thusness: yet that is still a referencing

(7:51 PM) Thusness: to be without reference is to realize that all there is always only Appearance. When u realized that thoroughly, u r without reference, location, direct and vividly Present. 🙂

Session Start: Monday, 19 April, 2010

(5:12 PM) AEN: john wheeler: To know any experience, there must be a knowing that "I am". That is just the basic conscious knowing of being present. That is what first appears out of deep sleep. It is not a personal "I" or any other notion. Call it impersonal knowing. Subsequently, the mind begins operating and the separate "I" notion is created in thought.

Pure awareness, or non-conceptual reality, is non-dual. Upon or within this arises self-consciousness, which is the pure sense of "I am", but not yet individualized. Then follows the "I" concept, or the notion of separate individuality. Lastly, there appear notions such as I am this or that (body, mind, personality, etc.).

From the perspective of reality, there is NO appearance to speak of, because the seeming appearance is the appearance of THAT. It is all THAT.

(5:12 PM) AEN: All phenomena appear in consciousness. That consciousness is NOT personal. It is the primordial or first experience in duality. It is the pure sense of "I am" with no other content, just knowing "I am" without words, or being self-consciously aware. But that is still an experience. You are the space in which even that comes and goes.

Session Start: Monday, 19 April, 2010

(10:51 PM) Thusness: John Wheeler recent para is not bad.

(11:08 PM) AEN: oic..

he's talking about non dual?

(11:11 PM) Thusness: not just that

(11:13 PM) Thusness: John Wheeler seems to be able to outline the different phases of "I M" i told u

(11:14 PM) Thusness: however that is only up till non-dual level

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13m

Soh Wei Yu

The reason why he thinks he understood anatta: because he realised certain aspect of no self. But only impersonality and up to nondual. 99% of the time when someone talks about no self, it is only at the impersonality level. They are not aware of the different degrees of self/Self and no-self/Self and the different insights and subtleties as I explained in https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2020/04/different-degress-of-no-self-non.html

Different Degress of No-Self: Non-Doership, Non-dual, Anatta, Total Exertion and Dealing with Pitfalls

AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM

Different Degress of No-Self: Non-Doership, Non-dual, Anatta, Total Exertion and Dealing with Pitfalls

Different Degress of No-Self: Non-Doership, Non-dual, Anatta, Total Exertion and Dealing with Pitfalls

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Soh Wei Yu

Aditya Prasad This distinction between consciousness and awareness only occurs in his later books, not earlier ones. When he was more influenced by Nisargadatta who is trying to point to Thusness Stage 3 (see: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2019/03/thusnesss-comments-on-nisargadatta.html )

And also see:

Thusness's Comments on Nisargadatta / Stage 3

AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM

Thusness's Comments on Nisargadatta / Stage 3

Thusness's Comments on Nisargadatta / Stage 3

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Soh Wei Yu

Session Start: Monday, 21 June, 2010

(7:41 AM) AEN: http://www.naturalstate.us/pointers.html

what do u think of this:

(7:41 AM) AEN: When consciousness dawns upon arising from sleep, it is simply pure "knowing that I am". It is not individual, and is in fact, impersonal and unlimited. The notion of a limited self or "me" spins up in the subsequent conceptualizing in the mind after consciousness has already arisen. But

don't forget that your real position is the ever-present reality on which waking (consciousness) and sleep (unconsciousness) both appear.

(8:26 AM) AEN: A lot of people come up to the level of consciousness or recognizing the sense of being and take that as the absolute. Here they get stuck and mistake the dawn for the noon, so to speak. The "knowing that I am" or state of consciousness is the first eruption or modification on the absolute, eternal state. People generally miss the fact that

consciousness is an intermittent appearance. It is the first modification on the absolute and the beginning of duality. What people are often expounding as reality is really the root of the illusion! What is prior to consciousness — which is what you really are — cannot

(8:26 AM) AEN: properly be named. Whatever term is used is only a pointer. Sure, it may be pointed to as consciousness, awareness, being, emptiness, etc. but these are provisional pointers only. In the end, even these are discarded. Even statements like "I am consciousness",

"consciousness is all there is", "there is no one here", etc., are only mental concepts. So don't settle for pointers! Let the pointers go and BE what is being pointed to.

(8:38 AM) AEN: "many practitioners cannot know the difference and see the exact cause of arising and simply blah that there is no cause to it...

u should be clear about it." - lol i just found a post that did the exact same thing by saying there is no cause and whatever u do is useless 😛 http://beingisknowing.blogspot.com/.../nothing-works...

(8:41 AM) Thusness: When we say cause, we are really saying predictable patterns, not a metaphysical something behind.

(8:41 AM) AEN: oic.. yah, this guy is saying there is no predictable pattern or cause of an insight... and whatever u do is useless 😛

then i wonder why he wrote that for 😛

(8:42 AM) Thusness: ic...that is advaita...

(8:42 AM) AEN: ic.. u mean advaita generally teach that?

they teach self inquiry rite

(8:45 AM) Thusness: yeah...overwhelmed by the taste of presence, we wanted so much to make it 'independent' to suit our 'free will' and 'absolute' model of our dualistic paradigm, that is the mind created such a notion of Absolute Reality.

(8:46 AM) Thusness: This will only hinder our progress from further experiencing presence.

(8:46 AM) AEN: oic..

(8:46 AM) AEN: btw did u see this article - deepak chopra seems to be talking about the maha experience here http://www.anhglobal.org/en/node/591

(8:49 AM) Thusness: imo, that is more theoretical then experiential.

(8:49 AM) AEN: icic..

(9:03 AM) AEN: http://www.prahlad.org/.../NISARGADATTA%20CONSCIOUSNESS...

(9:03 AM) AEN: 3. Then I realize that if I subtract all the above, what is left? Only my sense of existing itself, my sense of presence, my sense of being here, the consciousness. I realize that I am that consciousness only,

(9:03 AM) AEN: the feeling of existing. I must be THAT. What IS that? It is very subtle. But now I am coming closer. This is the realization of the mystical phrase "I am that I am." And along with this stage of realization

comes the realization of my universality. This realization of the "I am" brings with it the explosive understanding that there is no such thing as an individual, the "I am" is universal, everyone and every

living thing is feeling it the same way. We don't ourselves create our sense of "I am." Rather we inherit the prior existing sense of presence of the original beingness which spontaneously first appeared on the background of the void, or the object-less pure awareness.

4. When I am thus established in sense of identity with this universal sense of presence, or the "I am," I am at last poised for the final realization. Remember, the realization of the "I am" is already a very

high state, and many will simply stop here to enjoy living in the universal personless beingness. This is the knowledge of God and the knowledge that I am God. But some rare ones keep going and keep

questioning deeper and come to the breakthrough realization that ALL beingness, even the beingness of "God" is still a form of illusion and duality, and they will realize and move into and "become" the

(9:03 AM) AEN: pure awareness only, giving up even that last and very high identity as the universal "I am." The consciousness will continue on no doubt, and the all the activities of life, but the identity of myself will now be

(9:04 AM) AEN: fixed back at its original home, the pure awareness which was prior to consciousness.

This last step is still incomprehensible to me but I love to think about it again and again. Many can give up the lesser false identifications, casting them off like tattered old clothes and stripping naked down

to the singular universal consciousness. But who can give up that very sense of beingness itself? We LOVE to be, and fear terribly not being anymore. It is frightening! Looked at from a lower level the final

realization seems like absolute and utter annihilation itself, and who on earth wants to be completely annihilated? Thus, very few rare souls ever realize the final realization! Above all, I WANT TO BE!

(9:05 AM) AEN: Buddha became the Void itself and entered into the great nirvana. A friend of mine called it "The Great Suicide." Then one realizes the final incredible and terrifying reality: there is nothing. And though

really and truly there is absolutely nothing, at the same time that nothingness is inexplicably filled to fullness with an indescribable "something which is not a thing," the pure awareness, the absolute,

unaware of itself. That is the one and only "thing-which-is-not- a-thing" which is truly real. All else is false, a fraud made of spacetime, of things which begin and end and come and go, the Great Maha

Maya, the dreams of the universal mind.

-

is this talking about transiting from I AM to impersonality?

(9:08 AM) Thusness: no

(9:11 AM) Thusness: this is phase 3 in terms of thoroughness and willingness of giving out even the sense of Presence... a phase to eliminate the ultimate block. Whatever experience that arises becomes secondary... it is an inner development to eliminate the last trace of 'Self/self' or clinging to the sense of 'I' but without any arising insight of non-dual or anatta.

(9:12 AM) Thusness: that sense of 'Self', that knot, that ultimate clinging, that ultimate attachment... we do not have to do away with it this way, it can be dissolved by the right view of emptiness.

(9:13 AM) AEN: oic..

(9:13 AM) Thusness: with that clinging to Presence, 'effortlessness' will not be truly understood.

(9:14 AM) Thusness: any form of clinging, be it Self/self or Presence, will prevent a practitioner from correctly experiencing 'effortlessness'. This is the 4th aspect I want u to realize.

(9:15 AM) Thusness: However this person only sees the 'void'.

(9:15 AM) AEN: icic..

(9:22 AM) AEN: btw what i pasted just now by john wheeler on top is also on the void?

(9:40 AM) Thusness: john wheeler is speculating with the attachment of Presence.

(9:40 AM) AEN: oic..

(9:43 AM) Thusness: that is, he wants to talk about the 'void' without giving up the sense of Presence.

(9:43 AM) AEN: icic..

naturalstate.us

NATURALSTATE.US

naturalstate.us

naturalstate.us

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This pointer is for those practicing self-inquiry. If you have already passed the I AM realization, there is no need to read this.

......

P:
Sometimes during practice a state of deep stillness and silence is maintained for an extended period. In such a state, is it better to abide in it, or is it better to continue to invoke the "before birth.., who am I" inquiry with intention?


I replied:



Continue inquiring. Both silence and thoughts are just passing states and are not the point. What is aware of silence and thoughts? What is undeniably existing and present in thoughtlessness? Who am I?


Excerpt from https://awakeningclaritynow.com/awakening-to-the-natural-state-guest-teaching-by-john-wheeler/



‘in the wrong direction. Nisargadatta Maharaj used to say, ‘Understanding is all’. In essence, Bob was saying, ‘Right now in your direct experience see what your real nature is. What are you right now? What have you always been?’ The thinking mind is useless for this because seeing or looking is not a conceptual function at all. It is more like seeing an apple in your hand. You just look, not think. Right now, as you read this, you exist and you are aware that you exist. You are undoubtedly present and aware. Before the next thought arises, you are absolutely certain of the fact of your own being, your own awareness, your own presence. This awareness is what you are; it is what you always have been. All thoughts, perceptions, sensations and feelings appear within or upon that. This awareness does not move, change or shift at any time. It is always free and completely untouched. However, it is not a thing or an object that you can see or grasp. The mind, being simply thoughts arising in awareness, cannot grasp it or know it or even think about it. Yet, as Bob says, you cannot deny the fact of your own being. It is palpably obvious, and yet, from the time we were born, no one has pointed this out. Once it is pointed out it can be grasped or understood very quickly because it is just a matter of noticing, ‘Oh, that is what I am!’ It is a bright, luminous, empty, presence of awareness; it is absolutely radiant, yet without form; it is seemingly intangible, but the most solid fact in your existence; it is effortlessly here right now, forever untouched. Without taking a step, you have arrived; you are home. No practice can reveal this because practices are in time and in the mind. Practices aim at a result, but you (as presence-awareness) are here already, only you don’t recognize it till it is pointed out. Once seen, you can’t lose it, and you don’t have to practice to exist, to be. This is, in essence, what Bob pointed out to me in the first conversation I had with him Once I saw this, I felt very clear and free immediately. Later, some thoughts came up, some old personality patterns, some old definitions of who I thought myself to be. I seemed to lose the clear understanding of my nature as presence-awareness. The next day, I talked to Bob about it. He said, ‘Let’s have a look. Do you exist? Are you aware? What is illumining the thought that you have lost it?’ Then I realized that thoughts of suffering were only passing concepts being illumined by the ever-present awareness. I hadn’t lost anything at all. The awareness that we are is never obscured! Suffering seems real because we don’t have a clear understanding of our true nature. Instead, we believe the passing thoughts, such as ‘I am no good,’ ‘I am not there yet,’ ‘I am stuck’ or whatever the thought may be. Eventually we understand that we are not those thoughts. Once our real self is pointed out, the suffering loses its grip. Bob pointed out that there is no person here at all. The person that we think we are is an imaginary concept. There are thoughts and feelings and perceptions, but they are ‘



- John Wheeler




M:
I had a similar question actually because i listened to Adyashanti talk and he says to rest in the silence, that the silence is the answer to the question Who am I. So a little different. But the silence doesn’t seem bright luminous presence etc so I need to keep inquiring. 




I replied: 


Adyashanti said:
"...But whatever you are, you don’t disappear when you’re silent. The world doesn’t disappear when you’re silent. The glass of water doesn’t disappear when I stop thinking it’s a glass of water. The reality of life actually exists whether we’re thinking about it or not. I think it only takes those five seconds to see where most of us are actually living our whole life.
Does noticing silence mean we’re ignoring everything that doesn’t seem to exist when we’re in silence?
The silence I’m talking about is the natural silence of awareness before we go into a dreamy place, before we disconnect. It’s prior to all that movement of mind. One of the things that I often emphasize when teaching is that it has to be a vivid silence. If you feel spaced-out and dreamy internally, it’s like you’re leaning too far back. And if you just lean forward a little bit, it comes back into view.
"


There’s a website which speaks of silence this way.. or some people say space. Formless. But it’s the formlessness of the I AM and not just a silent state of mind



Www.puresilence.org



Excerpt from PureSilence.org:

'The Hebrew writer who penned this miracle of language, that that which is unknowable, unnamable, immeasurable is that which is beyond all and encompassing all, had a wonderful experience of Pure Silence in his or her awareness to have come to this conclusion. You see, the unknowable which is impossible to understand rationally or emotionally is being ness itself and this being ness is a present tense verb. "Am" is what it was and is called. Am is present, now, and since it is a verb it is not subject or object, but rather action, the action of am-ing, or be-ing. Our only semi-tangible way of imperfectly grasping this is by allowing our awareness very subtly to focus on being itself and the brain can only understand this as silent nothingness between and supporting everything.

Pure Silence is simply experiencing being as a witness, not as controller or doer or thinker but as observer. There is tremendous freedom and peace in this. Where there is peace, there is certitude and order. From the order comes wisdom and inexplicable joy, which is the joy of discovery. The discovery is that your am-ness is no different from the Elohim, from the am of God itself. You are the chosen, we are the chosen because there is no choice to be made for ourselves. We simply are, choicelessly, purely, resoundingly.

The Psalmist calls us to be still and know that we are. Stop right now and recognize your true identity, your being ness which is being itself. No matter what you have done, thought or believed, all that is completely secondary to the fact that you are and what you are is God, which is Pure Silence itself.

Isn't that a comforting thought for a rainy, dark night?

Shalom!'



M: It seems like when there is silence of thought and I keep inquiring then other phenomena start occurring like hearing loud hissing almost like locusts or feeling energetic phenomena. Can be distracting lol. I need to keep going. In a week I’m doing silent retreat with Adya. Hopefully will breakthrough to IAM then. That’s my goal.


I replied: (Thumbs up) 

Any phenomena can become another opportunity to inquire and isn’t a hindrance. I.e. Trace back the radiance (from a sound, a perception, a sensation, etc) by inquiring into its Source.

http://zenmind.org/tracing.html


Tracing Back the Radiance
by Chinul

how to stop the waterfall Question: What is the mind of void and calm, numinous awareness?

Chinul: What has just asked me this question is precisely your mind of void and calm, numinous awareness. Why not trace back its radiance rather than search for it outside? For your benefit I will now point straight to your original mind so that you can awaken to it. Clear your minds and listen to my words.

From morning until evening, all during the 12 periods of the day, during all your actions and activities - whether seeing, hearing, laughing, talking, whether angry of happy, whether doing evil or good - utlimately who is it that is able to perform all these actions? Speak! If you say that it is the physical body which is acting, then at the moment when a man's life comes to an end, even though the body has not yet decayed, how is it that the eyes cannot see, the ears cannot hear, the nose cannot smell, the tongue cannot talk, the hands cannot grasp, the feet cannot run?

You should know that what is capable of seeing, hearing, moving and acting has to be your original mind; it is not your physical body. Furthermore, the four elements which make up the physical body are by nature void; they are like images in a mirror of the moon's reflection in water. How can they be clear and constantly aware, always bright and never obscured - and, upon activation, be able to put into operation sublime functions as numerous as the sands of the Ganges? For this reason it is said: "Drawing water and carrying firewood are spiritual powers and sublime functions."

There are many points at which to enter the noumenon. I will indicate one approach which will allow you to return to the source.

Chinul: Do you hear the sound sof that crow cawing and that magpie calling?

Student: Yes.

Chinul: Trace them back and listen to your hearing-nature. Do you hear any sounds?

Student: At that place, sound and discrimination do not obtain.

Chinul: Marvelous! Marvelous! This is Avalokitesvara's method for entering the noumenon. Let me ask you again. You said that sounds and discrimination do not obtain at that place. But since they do not obtain, isn't the hearing-nature just empty space at such a time?

Student: Originally it is not empty. It is always bright and never obscured.

Chinul: What is this essence which is not empty?

Student: Words cannot describe it.



Excerpted from Tracing Back the Radiance by Robert Buswell.
Taken from https://awakeningclaritynow.com/awakening-to-the-natural-state-guest-teaching-by-john-wheeler/

Awakening to the Natural State: Guest Teaching by John Wheeler



WELCOME TO AWAKENING CLARITY.  If you’re just joining us for the first time, you have some catching up to do.  This issue is post number 106, and this is the 30th edition of our Guest Teaching Series.  This is also the 5th edition of our First Chapter Preview.  John Wheeler joins holds down both the Guest Teacher and the Guest Writer positions this week.
Yin_and_Yang.45-1F.A.Q.  On my other website, Beyond-Recovery.org, I’ve answered six of the most frequently asked questions I’ve gotten in the mail since Awakening Clarity launched:
1) What is Nonduality?
2) What is awakening?
3) What can I do to help myself wake up?
4) Do I have free will, or not?
5) How do I stay awake?
6) Is there really a planetary shift taking place?  
If any of those questions pique your interest, here’s a link to a discussion on all of them: Beyond-Recovery.org/FAQ/.  I want to thank Scott Kiloby for his kind review of my book, which I’ve just hung up on the site http://www.beyond-recovery.org/endorsements/. The BR blog was updated today as well, and is updated every week.
You’ll also find a special all-video post by me on the front page below John’s article.  It’s some of the addiction-recovery-awakening story behind Beyond Recovery.  You may find them to be fairly entertaining if nothing else.

Yin_and_Yang.45-1
OHN WHEELER will tell you some of his own story himself.  He’s a fascinating guy who would certainly understand two things I often talk about: involvement and commitment.  I don’t want to suggest that it’s mandatory–nothing is universally mandatory–but just for the sake of argument, how many people do you know who would fly to Australia in order to get this teaching first hand?  That’s just what John did a number of years ago, when he first visited Sailor Bob Adamson. That is coming down out of the bleachers and stepping onto the field.  That is a commitment to truth.  I’m now going to turn his introduction over to Julian Noyce, John’s publisher at Non-Duality Press.  Julian writes:
When Fred generously asked me to contribute material for a guest teacher spot I immediately thought of John Wheeler. Usually, Fred asks the teacher to contribute something themselves but having got to know John a little through our interactions over the years I sense that, given a choice,  he would prefer to stay out of the limelight.
Unusually for a teacher who has quite a substantial following, John has always kept up a full time career. His sharing of the teaching arises from a generosity of spirit. I personally know he has spent many hours in email correspondence or talking on the ‘phone with genuine questioners and also face to face at the low-key meetings he holds in Santa Cruz.  His uncluttered and focused guidance has been credited with concluding the search for many people. My wife, Catherine, keeps up a presence on Facebook and tells me his name is often mentioned. He has the ability to keep the questioner focused and looking in the right direction. Alongside this, he is also a talented singer/songwriter and the editor of ‘Sailor’ Bob’s two books!
The piece below was chosen from John’s first book, Awakening to the Natural State. It describes his seeking ‘career’, his meeting with ‘Sailor’ Bob Adamson, and what transpired from that encounter with Bob. Again, it’s not intended as a promotional piece for Bob, it’s just how it was for John.
AWAKENING TO THE NATURAL STATE
by
JOHN WHEELER
 
From: Awakening to the Natural State; Chap.1 – Meeting ‘Sailor’ Bob Adamson
I had been on the spiritual path from my teenage years. For about thirty years I had been involved in various paths and practices, including Christianity, Theosophy, the teachings of J. Krishnamurti (I went to his talks in Ojai in the 1980s), Buddhism, Hinduism, and yoga. There were other paths and teachers also, too numerous to mention here. In my mid-twenties, I was introduced to Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj (through books on their lives and teachings). Something about those great Indian teachers of non-dual spirituality seemed solid and unshakable. I found myself returning to their teachings over the years, even though I can’t say I fully (or even partially) understood or experienced what they were talking about.
Along the way, I did the circuit of many of the contemporary teachers involved in non-dual spirituality. There was undoubtedly a benefit, but I was not fully satisfied for some reason. Either it was my confusion or something was not fully clear in the teachings being presented. Most likely the former! For some reason my destiny was to meet ‘Sailor’ Bob Adamson, one of Nisargadatta Maharaj’s Western students.
What I found was that there was only so much I could get from books and meditating on my own. The growth was there, but it was often slow, and I was not getting much direct experience. I vaguely felt that I was progressing, but if I honestly looked at my experience, I did not fully understand what the teachers were pointing to. Most importantly, my day-to-day life was not free of suffering. I knew the seeking was not over; something was missing. Had I not met Bob Adamson, the seeking might have gone on for decades, or at least until I met someone with a real understanding. Who knows who that might have been or when, but, barring that, I am pretty sure the seeking – and suffering – would have continued for a long time.
At one point, I met some Ramana Maharshi followers who had been on the path of self-inquiry for twenty or thirty years (and still working at it, I might add!). I was nowhere near their level of devotion, so it was pretty much out the picture that that approach would work for me. As I look at this now, it is not so much Ramana’s teaching that is at fault, but the mind’s inevitable tendency to turn any teaching into a practice. Practices, as I eventually learned, usually are interminable. This is because they are often based on false premises.
Intuitively, I felt that it was important for me to meet someone who had realized their true nature, someone whom I could trust, someone whom I could talk with in order to share my doubts and concerns. However, I was unsure which teachers were authentic; none seemed to resonate fully. I used to read Nisargadatta Maharaj’s dialogues frequently. I could not understand his teaching fully, given all the Hindu verbiage and translation issues (he originally spoke in Marathi), but I felt intuitively that he was a free being. Many spiritual seekers, through reading his words, can sense the genuineness of his realization, even if they do not always experience everything he talks about. I used to wonder if there was anyone still living who had met Nisargadatta Maharaj and had really got the experience of self-knowledge. After all those years of searching, I eventually stumbled across Bob Adamson. Something resonated strongly. Even when I read the pages on his website, there was a strong feeling of ‘maybe this is it’.
Just prior to discovering Bob Adamson, I had a vivid dream of Nisargadatta Maharaj, in which he was encouraging me not to give up the search for spiritual understanding. Shortly afterwards, I learned about Bob Adamson. Not wanting to miss the chance of meeting an authentic teacher (having missed the chance to see Nisargadatta Maharaj while he was alive), I decided to visit Bob in person in Australia. You can imagine my motivation (or perhaps desperation!) in going to Australia on the chance that he might be able to clarify my doubts and questions.

What I have found is that the understanding of our true nature almost never comes from reading books or thinking about it. The best books are primarily the records of dialogues that took place between a seeker and a teacher at some point in the past. In reading such books, we are trying to understand an experience that took place in the past (through words and concepts on the page). A book is like a map pointing to something real that was experienced in a dialogue between living people. Usually, we do not have a clear understanding of what is being revealed (at least I didn’t) and we are trying to figure it out in the mind. This is a noble attempt, but as Bob Adamson pointed out within a few minutes of talking to him, ‘The answer can never be found in the mind’. The experience of spiritual understanding and freedom is not forthcoming, so we naturally assume that we are not ‘there’ (wherever ‘there’ is). We think there must be some technique or path involved to get there. But somehow we are not quite sure what it is! The result is that the mind keeps generating the same old bondage and suffering. This is a frustrating cycle, because we intuitively feel a glimmer of light or truth in the readings, but the actual experience eludes us. The majority of seekers that I have met have had a similar experience. Many are driven to try to find a living teacher, in order to get some guidance and assistance on the spiritual path. This was what happened for me.
I met many teachers, but it wasn’t until I met Bob Adamson that I was convinced that I was dealing with someone who had fully realized his true nature. Something radically shifted for me because I came face-to-face with the vitality, the confidence, the energy of that understanding. It was a remarkable experience and quite different from anything I had encountered in my years of seeking. The first day after I arrived, we had a chance to meet and talk. As we sat together, he looked me in the eyes and said point blank, ‘Do you have any doubts or questions? Is there anything you need to know?’ It was somewhat disarming because I realized he was free of doubts and was essentially offering me a chance to have the same experience for myself right then and there. The implication, it seemed to me, was ‘The seeking is over, the reading is over. You are here. Are you ready to go for this completely here and now?’ Fortunately, I jumped at the chance. I cast aside my theoretical knowledge and got down to getting off my chest my real doubts, questions and problems.
Surprisingly, things cleared up very quickly. Being face-to-face with that clarity – coupled with my own desire to be free – allowed things to shift quickly. The basic teaching is very simple, almost too simple. It is so simple the mind overlooks it. What I didn’t realize was that it has nothing to do with reading, meditating, doing something, working something out, stilling the mind, and so on. All of the techniques are looking in the wrong direction. Nisargadatta Maharaj used to say, ‘Understanding is all’. In essence, Bob was saying, ‘Right now in your direct experience see what your real nature is. What are you right now? What have you always been?’ The thinking mind is useless for this because seeing or looking is not a conceptual function at all. It is more like seeing an apple in your hand. You just look, not think.
Right now, as you read this, you exist and you are aware that you exist. You are undoubtedly present and aware. Before the next thought arises, you are absolutely certain of the fact of your own being, your own awareness, your own presence. This awareness is what you are; it is what you always have been. All thoughts, perceptions, sensations and feelings appear within or upon that. This awareness does not move, change or shift at any time. It is always free and completely untouched. However, it is not a thing or an object that you can see or grasp. The mind, being simply thoughts arising in awareness, cannot grasp it or know it or even think about it. Yet, as Bob says, you cannot deny the fact of your own being. It is palpably obvious, and yet, from the time we were born, no one has pointed this out. Once it is pointed out it can be grasped or understood very quickly because it is just a matter of noticing, ‘Oh, that is what I am!’ It is a bright, luminous, empty, presence of awareness; it is absolutely radiant, yet without form; it is seemingly intangible, but the most solid fact in your existence; it is effortlessly here right now, forever untouched. Without taking a step, you have arrived; you are home. No practice can reveal this because practices are in time and in the mind. Practices aim at a result, but you (as presence-awareness) are here already, only you don’t recognize it till it is pointed out. Once seen, you can’t lose it, and you don’t have to practice to exist, to be. This is, in essence, what Bob pointed out to me in the first conversation I had with him

Once I saw this, I felt very clear and free immediately. Later, some thoughts came up, some old personality patterns, some old definitions of who I thought myself to be. I seemed to lose the clear understanding of my nature as presence-awareness. The next day, I talked to Bob about it. He said, ‘Let’s have a look. Do you exist? Are you aware? What is illumining the thought that you have lost it?’ Then I realized that thoughts of suffering were only passing concepts being illumined by the ever-present awareness. I hadn’t lost anything at all. The awareness that we are is never obscured! Suffering seems real because we don’t have a clear understanding of our true nature. Instead, we believe the passing thoughts, such as ‘I am no good,’ ‘I am not there yet,’ ‘I am stuck’ or whatever the thought may be. Eventually we understand that we are not those thoughts. Once our real self is pointed out, the suffering loses its grip.
Bob pointed out that there is no person here at all. The person that we think we are is an imaginary concept. There are thoughts and feelings and perceptions, but they are not a problem. They just rise and fall like dust motes in the light of the presence-awareness that we are.
The closest that the mind can come to representing who we are is the thought ‘I am’. But that thought is not who we really are. Whether that thought is there or not, we still exist. We know the thought ‘I am’. That thought is the start of the false sense of an individual, a separate ‘I’. Because we didn’t know any better, the mind attached other labels to this ‘I’ thought, such as ‘I am good,’ ‘I am bad,’ ‘I have this problem,’ and so on. But those thoughts don’t have anything to do with us, because the very ‘I’ thought itself, the sense of separation, is not actually who we are. Once you see the falseness of the ‘I’ thought, that what we are is not an individual person at all, the identifications and ideas of a lifetime all collapse because they are all based on a false premise.
There is no practice to overcome suffering. It is simply a matter of seeing that the false ‘I’ is an assumption, that the whole mechanism is a conceptual house of cards. Then a lifetime of suffering evaporates. As Bob says, without the cause (the ‘I’), can there be any effects (psychological suffering and bondage)?
As I sat on his couch at one of his talks listening to him say ‘There is no person,’ suddenly it hit me. I looked and saw that right now and here, there is not a separate person in the picture at all. In that moment, all my doubts and confusion evaporated. I realized that all problems and questions stem from the sense of an ‘I’ that was assumed to be there at the centre of my life. Upon actual looking, I discovered it was not there at all. Fifteen years of meditating could not accomplish what occurred in a few moments of direct looking. In that recognition arose a direct and immediate sense of clarity and peace. I intuitively felt that the searching was over. I recall raising my hand and asking Bob, ‘So when you see yourself as the ever-present awareness and that the “I” that we imagined ourselves to be is really non-existent, then there can be no more doubts, questions, or problems. Is that it?’ He confirmed that this was so. From that moment on, I have not felt any serious difficulty or suffering, nor felt the slightest desire or urge to seek, meditate, or pursue any particular spiritual path. The whole landscape shifted and I intuitively knew the seeking was over. The ‘I’ upon which everything was based was not there. However, the shining presence-awareness was still there without effort, the simple fact of our own being.
Finally, Bob pointed out that all things arise in awareness and never exist apart from awareness. It is all one substance, all one light; it is all that; it is non-duality. There is nowhere to go and nothing to obtain. Everything is resolved. We ‘live, move, and have our being’ in that one ocean of light and never, ever move away from that.
This was the understanding that came to me, courtesy of Bob Adamson. It is all words, but maybe a glimmer of something will come through.

How This Understanding Unfolded for Me
The way this understanding unfolded for me was through the following insights. Bob pointed out to me the truth of our nature as presence-awareness or cognizing emptiness. Somehow that clicked for me. It was not so much the words, which I had read countless times before. It was the energy or vitality coming through the words that was potent and impactful. I sensed he was not only saying the words, but also living from that realization. This enabled a resonance to occur. To meet Nisargadatta Maharaj in person and partake in a living dialogue with him would likely have been more potent than reading his book I AM THAT. There was a huge difference between reading the words on paper ‘You are awareness’ and having a direct disciple of Nisargadatta Maharaj tell me in no uncertain terms, ‘You are awareness!’
After having seen this, and feeling some sense of freedom, I still seemed to lose it when contradictory thoughts arose. Bob pointed out that this is, in fact, not possible. You cannot lose your true nature, because it is the substratum of any thinking and perceiving. I realized that we can never leave this. Even if the thought ‘I lost it’ arises, the awareness is there knowing that thought. So the thought  is patently false.
The ‘knock-out blow’ was seeing the absence of a person. There is no such entity in the machine. There are only thoughts, experiences and objects arising and subsiding in awareness. There is no one controlling them and no one affected by them. Once this is seen, everything happens just as before, but the imagined person is removed from the film. The film goes on but there is no person starring in it. There are thoughts, but no thinker; actions, but no actor; choices, but no choice-maker. Basically, there is no difference from before, except the sense of separation is gone, along with the psychological suffering, confusion and doubt that appears along with the belief in a separate ‘I’. There is no one at the controls. Life is happening; thoughts are arising; actions are occurring spontaneously. You, as a separate person, are not doing any of these things. You don’t choose your thoughts, feelings, sensations. As Bob says, ‘You are being lived’.
As a final tying up of loose ends, it was helpful to see the fact that all experiences are just movements in awareness. They are like waves arising and falling in the awareness that we are. It is all one substance. There is only one energy, one substance, one taste. Past, future, there, here, I, you, this, that, and so on, are all just conceptual distinctions. Even concepts are that awareness. So you can’t win.
So what is the result? As the writer Wei Wu Wei once wrote, ‘The only problem is that 99.9% of everything you think, say and do is for yourself – and there isn’t one!’ Coming into alignment with the true state of affairs means that the usual strife, struggle and suffering based on wrong understanding vanishes. Life goes on. It is like a dislocated limb popping back into place. You can hardly say what happened, but suddenly everything feels a lot better! Nisargadatta Maharaj said something to the effect, ‘You can only put it negatively: there is nothing wrong anymore’. There is a distinct recognition that the searching is over. You may read books or visit spiritual teachers but you have the experience that they are saying what you already know.
In actual practice, while this understanding is sinking in, the seeker is often plagued by vestigial doubts, questions, and concerns, in spite of however advanced the intellectual understanding may be. I have seen many (including myself) able to converse on all this with the most incredible precision and verbal acumen. The only test is in day-to-day direct experience at the gut, emotional level. Is there any sense of suffering, separation, anxiety or fear? Am I feeling doubt or metaphysical uncertainty? Is the knowledge of my true nature unshakable? If not, the understanding is not complete. The best course, it seems to me, is to find a living teacher and get your doubts resolved directly. Nisargadatta Maharaj used to say, ‘I am not interested in what you have let go of, but what you are still holding onto’. A good teacher can help us resolve any remaining doubts. Then the understanding simply remains clear and steady and beyond doubt.
© 2004/2005 John Wheeler/Non-Duality Press
"The “I” is a thought, a word, a label. Basically, there is no “I” at all, except as a concept. There is seeing, doing, thinking, feeling, etc. but it is not being done by that notion “me”. It is action without the actor. The actor is posited, but not really present on direct evidence. Acknowledging the absence of doer-ship is key. But it is necessary to see that the “I” notion itself is an idea. That idea is not what you are. Are you that thought “I”? No! You are that presence in which all functioning happens. Not only the body/mind, but all appearances arise in the space of that knowing/being. As such, there cannot be any sense of “my” body or “my” actions, except as notions. If those are seen as notions, there is no problem. The notion is not doing anything. The actions are happening spontaneously, not by a concept. In fact, the “I” gets appended later, only after the event. There is no “I” in any present thinking, acting or doing. The “I” thought is added later and claims the ownership of the activity. Then we think “I” did that, when in fact the activity happened and was only claimed later. Thoroughly examine the nature of the claiming “I” thought, and see how the identification with that thought brings in a sense of limitation on your natural state."

~ John Wheeler


"I had always had a sense of 'innerness', a sense of a 'center' within. Then at one point it struck me that my sense of center could be an "assumption," not a fact. I suddenly realized that that assumption created a sense of inner/outer, of a 'me' inside and of a 'world' outside. With that realization I was able to 'let go' of that assumption. With that letting go consciousness became as a point that was everywhere at once. There was no longer an 'outside'. Everything was included in that expanded sense of spaceless presence. It was as if the 'subjective geometry' of experience became radically simpler, indeed as if there were no geometry at all!"

~ Peter Dziuban in Consciousness is All