Showing posts with label Zen Master Tozan Ryokai. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Zen Master Tozan Ryokai. Show all posts



I have posted some excerpts before at Excerpts from the Jewel Mirror Samadhi


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寶鏡三昧歌拾唾 飯田禪師著〔日〕 洪文亮老師指導和開示

《寶鏡三昧》洪老師講於金馬侖


寶鏡三昧歌拾唾

飯田禪師著〔日〕

少拙中譯

2005年11月金馬侖高原禪修

洪文亮老師指導和開示



這次向大家介紹寶鏡三昧歌,「歌」是指寫成文章或詩偈,「寶鏡三昧」即是阿嗕多羅三 邈三菩提。【寶鏡三昧歌】是洞山禪師所作,石頭希遷寫了【參同契】,這兩篇文章是姊妹品,這一篇比參同契說明更詳盡,但寫法相同。這一次的解釋是從日本的 飯田禪師翻譯過來的,上次講的參同契也是採用飯田禪師的解說。註解寶鏡三昧的文章很多,飯田禪師寫的這篇簡明扼要,另一篇是面山老師在八十六歲高齡所作, 因為時間有限,這次禪修我們只能講飯田禪師的這篇解說。這兩篇在曹洞宗的寺院中為早晚課必頌,可見其重要。


寶鏡三昧是牆壁瓦礫,是行住坐臥,是生死去來,是苦樂升沉。


『寶鏡三昧是牆壁瓦礫,是行住坐臥,是生死去來,是苦樂升沉』,這一句把重點都講完 了;牆壁也是,石頭也是,各位打噴嚏、走路、睡覺,一切行住坐臥皆是寶鏡三昧。那還有什麼可以講呢?我們最擔心的是生死去來,中陰生到哪裡去?有沒有六道 輪迴?有沒有地獄?有沒有淨土可以去?有沒有天堂可以上?這些生死去來的問題很重要,而其答案都可以以一句「寶鏡三昧」來解答。各位會覺得奇怪嗎?「苦樂 升沉」包括痛麻癢…這些都是,這表示不是特別有一個三昧,各位修了就可以進入,未修就不能進入;或是說有所成就的人才有寶鏡三昧,不是!不管是佛還是凡 夫,有情、無情、饅頭、鑽石、唱歌、走路…皆是,到底什麼意思?


以正眼看,全宇宙是一枚寶鏡三昧。因是一枚故,無能見與所見。


「正眼看」就是沒有糊里糊塗。我們往往是戴著有色眼鏡看東西,就覺得東西是紅色、綠 色、白色…「正眼看」就是沒有加一個偏差去看,整個宇宙是一枚寶鏡三昧。正因為整個宇宙是一副寶鏡三昧,所以當然行住坐臥、牆壁瓦礫、生死去來都是一副寶 鏡三昧。因為「一枚」就是「一副」,只是一副,「整個」就是「一副」的關係,沒有能見所見。整個身體都是你自己,有可能左腳是我,右腳不是我嗎?右腳看左 腳不是你,或左腳看右腳不是你,會這樣嗎?整個都是自己。你站出來外面一看的話,就分開了,既然整個都是,那能分嗎?不能分吧!水能分做這邊的水看那邊的 水嗎?整個水都是水。可以領略得出來嗎?


我們平常這樣看,你、我、他就分了,其實我看你、你看他,他和我及你通通是一個東 西,一枚寶鏡!這樣說我們就搞糊塗了,你是你,石頭是石頭,石頭不是我,那石頭和我怎麼是一個東西?你同意嗎?老虎現前了,老虎是我嗎?不是吧?老虎怎麼 是我?這在參同契中是「回戶」與「不回戶」的道理。「回互」是整個宇宙是一副寶鏡三昧,「不回互」是指對方是老虎,我是我,這是「不回互」。參同契強調的 是我們的世界,我們的念頭都認為老虎是在那邊要吃我,我要逃開等等…,各個獨立的,不回互。但是正眼看,原來整個都是一個法界、法性的顯現。那要怎麼樣契 合呢?用道理講了半天不如你一盤腿上坐,簡單講就是這樣,不是你覺得「啊!對了!」那是你的意識思維覺得對了。


若解會為鏡,則入地獄如矢。不見言,山河不在鏡中見,山河草木即鏡。


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Title: "The Song of Samadhi of the Jewelled Mirror"


Author: Zen Master Iida (Japanese)

Guidance and Teachings by: Teacher Hong Wenliang


The Song of Samadhi of the Jewelled Mirror lectured by Teacher Hong in Kinabalu


The Song of Samadhi of the Jewelled Mirror

Written by Zen Master Iida (Japanese)

Translated by Shao Zhuo

November 2005, Zen Meditation in Kinabalu Highlands

Guidance and Teachings by Teacher Hong Wenliang


Text:

This time, I introduce to everyone "The Song of Samadhi of the Jewelled Mirror." The term "song" refers to writing in the form of articles or poetry. "The Jewelled Mirror Samadhi" is the Samadhi of Achalā, the third Bhumi of Bodhisattva. "The Song of Samadhi of the Jewelled Mirror" was composed by Zen Master Dongshan, and Shitou Xiqian wrote the "Identity of Relative and Absolute." These two texts are like sister works; this one explains more in detail than the "Identity of Relative and Absolute," but the writing style is the same. This explanation is translated from the Japanese Zen Master Iida. The last lecture on "Identity of Relative and Absolute" also used Master Iida's interpretation. There are many articles annotating the "Jewelled Mirror Samadhi," but Master Iida's is concise and to the point. Another was written by Master Mianshan at the age of 86. Due to time constraints, in this meditation session, we can only discuss Master Iida's interpretation. These two are essential chants in the monasteries of the Soto school, reflecting their importance.


"The Jewelled Mirror Samadhi is walls, rubble, walking, standing, sitting, lying down, life and death, coming and going, suffering and pleasure, rising and sinking."


"This phrase sums up all the key points; walls, stones, sneezing, walking, sleeping, all activities of moving, standing, sitting, and lying down are the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi. What else is there to say? Our biggest concern is life and death, transitions - where do we go after death? Is there reincarnation in the six realms? Is there hell? Is there a Pure Land to go to? Is there a heaven to ascend to? These issues of life and death are crucial, and the answer to them can be summarized in the phrase 'Jewelled Mirror Samadhi.' Do you find this strange? 'Suffering and pleasure, rising and sinking,' including pain, numbness, itching... all these indicate that there isn't a special Samadhi that you enter once you practice it, or can't enter if you haven't; it's not that only accomplished people have the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, no! Whether you are a Buddha or a common being, sentient or insentient, steamed buns or diamonds, singing or walking... all are included. What does this mean?


With the correct perspective, the entire universe is a single Jewelled Mirror Samadhi. Because it is one, there is no seer or seen.


"Seeing with the correct perspective" means not being confused. We often look at things through colored glasses, seeing them as red, green, white... "Seeing with the correct perspective" means looking without bias. The entire universe is a single Jewelled Mirror Samadhi. Because the entire universe is a Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, naturally activities like walking, standing, sitting, lying down, walls, rubble, life and death are all a Jewelled Mirror Samadhi. Since it's "one," it's a single entity, "the whole" is "one," without the distinction of seer and seen. The whole body is yourself; is it possible that the left foot is me, but the right foot isn't? Can the right foot see the left foot as not you, or the left foot see the right foot as not you? This doesn't happen; it's all yourself. If you step outside and look, it's separated, but since it's all one, can it be divided? It can't, right? Can water be divided into this side's water seeing that side's water? The whole water is water. Can you grasp this concept?


We usually look this way; you, me, he are separated, but actually, me seeing you, you seeing him, he, me, and you are all one thing, a Jewelled Mirror! This confuses us; you are you, the stone is the stone, the stone is not me, then how are the stone and I the same thing? Do you agree? When a tiger appears, is the tiger me? No, right? How can the tiger be me? This is the principle of "mutual return" and "non-mutual return" in the "Identity of Relative and Absolute." "Mutual return" means the entire universe is a Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, "non-mutual return" means the other is a tiger, I am me, this is "non-mutual return." The "Identity of Relative and Absolute" emphasizes our world, our thoughts think the tiger is over there to eat me, I have to escape, etc... each is independent, non-mutual. But with the correct perspective, originally, it's all a manifestation of the Dharma realm, Dharma nature. Then how to reconcile this? Speaking with logic for half a day is not as good as sitting cross-legged, simply put, that's it, it's not about you thinking, "Ah! That's right!" That's your conscious thinking feeling right.


If you understand it as a mirror, then entering hell is swift as an arrow. Without words, mountains and rivers are not seen in the mirror; mountains, rivers, and vegetation are the mirror.


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『若解會為鏡』假如你把他解釋為一面鏡子,那就『入地獄如矢』。你把他當作一面鏡子 解釋,是解釋哦,一解釋的話,你就把他當作是對像去解說,那當然奇怪了,一面鏡子照的當然是影子,這樣分開來的話就完全錯了。「入地獄如矢」就是馬上錯掉 了,不可以把他當作這樣去解釋。『不見言』是沒有聽說過嗎?『山河不在鏡中見,山河草木即鏡』,你聽到「全宇宙是一枚寶鏡三昧」,就把三昧當作是一副鏡 子,這樣就很容易錯掉了。所以他強調「山河草木不在鏡中見,山河草木就是鏡子」。千萬不要把你所看的、所覺受的當作是鏡中的影子,不可以這樣講,山河大地 本身都是鏡子,不是鏡中的影子。


虎關禪師曰,莫啟吾手其人如玉,莫啟吾足脫體現成,看取,看取。


虎關禪師這句話的意思就是你不要多加一個,手腳一動就不是了,等於說在意識境界裡去 想這個道理的話就錯掉了,「當下就是圓成」,不需要動手腳,整個都是。所以各位看到的、聽到的,你千萬不要以為是大圓鏡智所現,有一面法界法性的鏡子所現 的,隨你的因緣果報不同而現出的影子,這樣解說就完全錯掉了。看到、聽到、摸到、想到的通通都是鏡子,包括你自己,整個都是鏡子!這點不要誤會了。


熱戀中之情侶,即使孤枕夜眠,猶若二人同衾,霧散山隱(日本短歌)。此歌自古難解,道也須臾不可離,夫妻元一體,獨眠不異兩人同寢,如此親蜜。誰敢愧對共枕情。


接著是取一首日本的短歌,熱戀中的情侶就算是一個人睡覺,如同和對方一起睡。『霧散 山隱』,霧散掉了,山就看不見了。此歌自古難解,霧散掉了,山怎麼反而看不見了?一個人睡覺等同於兩個人睡,到底是說什麼?飯田解釋說『道也須臾不可 離』,道一刻也不能離。你本身就是,你自己把他分開來,所以求道,你不知道自己本身就是道,你本身就是道的話,怎麼離?怎麼分開?當然是片刻不可離。『夫 妻元一體,獨眠不異兩人同寢,如此親蜜』,這表示我們自己或是外面的石頭瓦礫,通通都是寶鏡,因此是這樣親密。『誰敢愧對共枕情』是指難道說你不是道嗎?


霧是我見,看山時,山入眼,眼變山。


「霧散山隱」要特別注意,有了霧就看不清楚了,霧就是「我見」,我的想法、見解都 是。我們看東西、聽聲音,馬上有「我見」加進去,好像霧生起來一樣。『霧是我見,看山時,山入眼,眼變山』,看山時,山的影子進入眼睛,眼睛裡有山的影子 現在網膜裡,網膜上整個現山的影子,眼睛就是整個山。看到什麼,眼睛就變成所看的像。『能見所見雙泯』,對到了,還有能見所見嗎?我看到山、樹、雲、太 陽、月亮,看到時,眼睛就變成一朵雲或一座山,這上頭有沒有能見所見?有能見所見是你動個念頭:「我眼睛看到山」,你意識加進去了才有,當下都是影子,都 是像,眼變成花,眼變成麥克風,有沒有能見所見?能見所見是你去想他、講他,所以他說是「看山時,山入眼,眼變山」。


能見所見雙泯,本應解釋為相容,恐被誤解為二元之說,故曰山隱,此為隱之道理。


『能見所見雙泯,本應解釋為相容,恐被誤解為二元之說』。有一個能見的,有一個所見 的,有你和被你看見的山,兩個東西溶解在一起,很容易被誤解為二元,本來是兩個東西,後來變成是一個東西,融入了,不是這樣子。『故曰山隱,此為隱之道 理』,所謂「山隱」,眼睛對到山的時候,眼睛變成山,眼和山變成一個東西,能見所見沒有了。「山」是「我見」,你說「山」即是「我見」加進去了,思維一 動,我見有了,山和你就分開了。現在知道能見所見相容的關係,能見所見都是一張寶境的變化而已。

 

天地同根,萬物ㄧ體,最親者無過於一,故寶鏡三昧亦可說為大愛。

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"If you interpret it as a mirror," if you interpret it as a mirror, then you "enter hell swiftly." You interpret it as a mirror, just an interpretation, and by doing so, you take it as an object to explain, which of course is strange. A mirror naturally reflects a shadow, so if you separate it in this way, it's completely wrong. "Enter hell swiftly" means you're immediately mistaken. It should not be interpreted this way. "Unseen speech," have you not heard? "Mountains and rivers are not seen in the mirror, mountains and rivers and vegetation are the mirror." When you hear "the entire universe is a single Jewelled Mirror Samadhi," and you take Samadhi as a mirror, it's easy to be mistaken. Hence, it is emphasized, "mountains and rivers and vegetation are not seen in the mirror; they are the mirror itself." Do not take what you see and perceive as shadows in the mirror; mountains and earth themselves are the mirror, not shadows within it.


Zen Master Huguang said, "Do not move my hand, that person is like jade; do not move my feet, the truth manifests itself. Look, look."


The meaning of Zen Master Huguang's words is that you shouldn't add anything extra. Once you move a hand or a foot, it's no longer it. In other words, if you think about this principle in the realm of consciousness, you're mistaken. "It is already perfect," no need to move hands or feet; it's all there. So, whatever you see or hear, do not think it's the manifestation of the Great Mirror Wisdom, not a shadow revealed by a mirror of the Dharma realm and Dharma nature, appearing differently due to your karma. To interpret it this way is completely wrong. Whatever you see, hear, touch, or think, it's all the mirror, including yourself; everything is the mirror! Don't misunderstand this.


For lovers in deep love, even when sleeping alone, it's as if they share a quilt, "fog dissipates, mountains hide" (a Japanese Tanka). This song has been hard to understand since ancient times. The Way must not be separated for a moment; husband and wife are one body, sleeping alone is no different from sleeping together, such intimacy. Who dares to feel ashamed about shared love?


Then there is a Japanese Tanka, which says that lovers, even when sleeping alone, are as if they sleep together. "Fog dissipates, mountains hide," when the fog clears, the mountain becomes invisible. This song has been hard to interpret since ancient times. Why does the mountain become invisible when the fog clears? Sleeping alone is the same as sleeping together, what does it mean? Iida explains, "The Way cannot be separated even for a moment." You are it yourself; you separate it, so in seeking the Way, you don't know that you are the Way yourself. If you are the Way, how can you be separated? How can you be apart? Of course, it's inseparable for even a moment. "Husband and wife are one body; sleeping alone is no different from sleeping together, such intimacy," this means that we ourselves, or the stones and rubble outside, are all the Jewelled Mirror, hence the intimacy. "Who dares to feel ashamed about shared love?" means, aren't you the Way?


The fog is my view; when seeing the mountain, the mountain enters the eye, the eye becomes the mountain.


"Mountain hidden by fog" should be noted carefully. With fog, clarity is lost; the fog is "my view," my thoughts, and perspectives. When we look at things, listen to sounds, immediately "my view" is added, just like the emergence of fog. "The fog is my view; when seeing the mountain, the mountain enters the eye, the eye becomes the mountain," when looking at the mountain, the image of the mountain enters the eyes, and the retina shows the shadow of the mountain. The eye becomes the entire mountain. Whatever is seen, the eye becomes like that. "Seer and seen both vanish," when it matches, is there still a seer and seen? I see mountains, trees, clouds, the sun, the moon, when seen, the eye becomes a cloud or a mountain. Is there a seer and seen in this case? Seer and seen exist because you think, "My eye sees the mountain," you add consciousness, then there's, otherwise it's all shadow, all likeness, the eye becomes a flower, the eye becomes a microphone, is there a seer and seen? Seer and seen exist when you think about it and speak of it, so it's said, "when seeing the mountain, the mountain enters the eye, the eye becomes the mountain."


"Seer and seen both vanish," should be interpreted as co-emergence, but it's feared to be misunderstood as dualism, thus it's said the mountain hides, this is the principle of hiding.


"Seer and seen both vanish, should be interpreted as co-emergence, feared to be misunderstood as dualism." There is a seer and a seen, you and the mountain you see, two things merging into one. It's easy to be misunderstood as dualism, originally two things, later becoming one, merged, not like that. "Thus it's said the mountain hides, this is the principle of hiding," the so-called "mountain hiding," when the eye meets the mountain, the eye becomes the mountain, the eye and the mountain become one thing, seer and seen vanish. "Mountain" is "my view," when you say "mountain," it's adding "my view," as soon as thought moves, my view exists, the mountain and you are separated. Now you know the relationship of seer and seen co-emerging, seer and seen are just transformations of the Jewelled Mirror.


Heaven and earth share the same root, all things are one body, the closest thing is nothing more than one, so the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi can also be said to be great love.


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translate 『天地同根,萬物一體,最親者無過於一』,還有比一更親密的嗎?不是「一」的話,就 有彼此相對關係了,所以寶鏡三昧也可以說是大愛。整個都是一張寶鏡本身在那裡動,不是寶鏡所現,所以這是大愛。如果沒有這樣,大愛生不起來的,你是你,我 是我,他是他,講了愛、慈悲,都是以我的立場講,我可以愛他一點,我可以同情他一點,那是你在施捨,大愛不是這樣,大愛不是從這裡來的。


只管打坐看,與公案打成一片看,必有不覺拍手大笑之時。


這個道理講了很難瞭解,所以他說『只管打坐看,與公案打成一片看』。飯田老師多少還 是受臨濟宗的影響,贊同參公案,不像擇木興道或是道元主張一直都是打坐,只是飯田是指參公案時與公案打成一片。那麼『必有不覺拍手大笑之時』,講了半天都 不必動腦筋了,只管打坐看。如同我們講鹹是什麼、甜是什麼,講了半天,一放入口中便知,所以只管打坐看。


寶鏡三昧實為洞山之作。關於作者古來眾說紛紜,恐過於穿鑿。蓋由於會元十三洞山章記有「師因曹山辭,遂囑曰,吾在雲巖先師處親印寶鏡三昧事究的要,今付於汝」。乃認此為雲巖之作,源自於藥山。


『寶鏡三昧的作者是洞山禪師,自古以來關於作者眾說紛紜,恐過於穿鑿』。原因是在會 元十三洞山章記裡有『師因曹山辭,遂囑曰,吾在雲巖先師處親印寶鏡三昧事究的要,今付於汝』。曹山是洞山的學生,離開的時候,洞山告訴曹山:「我在雲巖先 師那裡,親印了寶鏡三昧是究的要」。「是究的要」參禪最要緊的那個。「今付於汝」,現在付給你了。『乃認此為雲巖之作,源自於藥山』,因為看到這段文字, 很多人以為寶鏡三昧不是洞山寫的,而是雲巖之作,洞山把雲嚴給他的寶鏡三昧交給曹山,而雲嚴是從藥山那裡一路傳過來的,此為後人的誤會罷了。


蓋此處所謂寶鏡三昧非為書名,而是直指的的相承,「箇」之正法眼藏,或為「師資相契」之意。


【寶鏡三昧】並非書名,這點要特別注意。釋尊拈花,迦葉尊者抬頭一看,對到了,破顏 一笑,傳過去了,這是寶鏡三昧。所以寶鏡三昧並非如武術家傳的密笈,也不是什麼奧秘。而是直指滴滴相承,就是要把這個東西傳下來。能夠用文字寫嗎?文字寫 的只是代號,不是它本身。『箇之正法眼藏』,「箇」包含的意思很多,有人用「麻三斤」、「庭前柏樹子」、喝、棒…等等,釋尊是用「拈花一笑」。『或為師資 相契之意』,一對到,相契了,那是寶鏡三昧。這個有了就對了,不管你叫他舌頭或是鼻子、耳朵、舌頭都可以。


晦然稱此書為寶鏡三昧歌,傳燈也加歌字以示分別。此歌確為洞山大師將佛祖密付之三昧,筆之成文,願不分真俗,皆得以傳誦證入佛道。


晦然禪師說此書為寶鏡三昧歌,傳燈禪師也加一個「歌」字以示分別,這首歌確為洞山大 師將佛祖密付的三昧「筆之成文」,寫成文章的。他希望不分僧俗,無論是在家出家都能傳頌這一首歌而證入佛道,單靠傳頌就可以幫你忙,得到釋尊真正希望你做 到的,不是叫你理解背頌,注意是「證入」。


不然「五位」之作者(洞山)亦必失其所據。面山之吹唱,痛批世謬,學人不妨參閱。


五位是正中偏、偏中正、正中來、偏中至、兼中到,這是洞山禪師最有名的五位君臣,他 的根據即是寶鏡三昧,由此可見如果寶鏡三昧不是洞山寫的,那五位君臣是怎麼來的?另一篇面山禪師的吹唱,痛批世謬,糾正世人誤傳的認為此篇是由藥山傳到雲 嚴再傳給洞山,洞山再交給曹山是錯誤的,他說的很詳細,大家不妨參考。


此歌與參同契和韻,將之綿密佈演。文中意旨廣略稍異,仍沿用虞語之韻,然知音者幾稀。若先讀參同契,再讀此書,自然會發現兩書虛靈相通。


『此歌與參同契和韻』,這首歌和參同契是合韻而成,連押韻都相同。『將之綿密佈演。 文中意旨廣略稍異』,只是比參同契說明的更加綿密仔細,說明稍有不同而已,其實兩篇要旨皆為佛要傳的滴滴大意。所以參同契中的第一句「竺土大僊心」就是 「寶鏡三昧」,就是釋尊傳的「涅盤妙心」,亦即達摩傳的「面壁打坐」;文字不同,表現不同,都是指「箇」。「箇」如果容易講的話,明說就好了,這個「箇」 不能用文字講,難以描寫,也無法用感情、感覺加以意會「哦!對了!豁然開朗。」那是覺受。所以說它難,很難!但也不難,因為當下你本身即是,只是自己總不 肯承當!那如果肯了之後就沒事了嗎?

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"Heaven and Earth share the same root, all things are one body, the closest thing is nothing more than one," is there anything more intimate than being 'one'? If it's not 'one,' then there are relative relationships between each other. Therefore, the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi can also be said to be great love. The entire thing is the movement of the Jewelled Mirror itself, not a manifestation of the Jewelled Mirror, thus it is great love. Without this, great love cannot arise; you are you, I am I, he is he, talking about love, compassion, are all from my standpoint. I can love him a little, sympathize with him a little, that's your giving, not great love. Great love does not come from here.


"Just sit in meditation and observe, blend with the koan and observe," there will inevitably be times when you unconsciously clap your hands and laugh aloud.


This principle is difficult to understand, so it is said, "Just sit in meditation and observe, blend with the koan and observe." Master Iida is somewhat influenced by the Linji School, advocating studying koans, unlike Tsaoko Hsingtao or Dogen who always advocated meditation. Iida refers to merging with the koan during its study. Then, "There will inevitably be times when you unconsciously clap your hands and laugh aloud," after all that talk, there's no need to use your brain, just sit in meditation and observe. Like we talk about what salty and sweet taste like, after talking for a long time, once you taste it, you know, so just sit in meditation and observe.


The Jewelled Mirror Samadhi is indeed a work of Master Dongshan. Regarding the author, there have been various opinions since ancient times, perhaps overly speculative. Because in the "Huiyuan Records of Master Dongshan," it says, "The Master, upon parting with Cao Shan, entrusted him, saying, 'At Master Yunyan's place, I personally confirmed the key point of the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, which I now entrust to you'." This led to the belief that it was a work of Yunyan, originating from Master Yaoshan.


The author of the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi is Master Dongshan, and there have been various opinions about the author since ancient times, perhaps overly speculative. The reason is in the "Huiyuan Records of Master Dongshan," it says, "The Master, upon parting with Cao Shan, entrusted him, saying, 'At Master Yunyan's place, I personally confirmed the key point of the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, which I now entrust to you'." Cao Shan is Dongshan's student. When leaving, Dongshan told Cao Shan: 'At Master Yunyan's place, I personally confirmed the key point of the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi.' 'The key point' refers to the most crucial point in Zen study. 'Now I entrust it to you,' it says. This led to the belief that it was a work of Yunyan, passed from Master Yaoshan to Yunyan, and then from Yunyan to Dongshan. This is a misunderstanding by later generations.


This place, called the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, is not a book title, but a direct transmission of the essence, 'this' being the Treasury of the True Dharma Eye, or perhaps the meaning of 'Master and Disciple Communion.'


The Jewelled Mirror Samadhi is not a book title, which is important to note. When Buddha held up a flower, Mahakasyapa looked up, got it, and smiled, it was passed on, that's the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi. Therefore, the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi is not a secret manual transmitted among martial artists, nor is it a mystery. It's about the direct transmission of essence, passing it down. Can it be written in words? The words are just a symbol, not the thing itself. 'This' contains many meanings, some use 'three pounds of flax,' 'a cypress tree in the courtyard,' drinking, hitting... etc., Buddha used 'a flower held up and a smile.' 'Perhaps the meaning of Master and Disciple Communion,' when it matches, it's communion, that's the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi. Once you have it, it's right, no matter if you call it a tongue or a nose, ear, or tongue.


Master Huiran referred to this book as The Song of the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, and Master Chuan Deng also added the word 'song' to distinguish it. This song is indeed Master Dongshan's written form of the secret Samadhi entrusted by the Buddha, wishing that both monks and laypeople could chant it and thereby enter and verify the Buddha way.


Master Huiran called this book The Song of the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, and Master Chuan Deng also added the word 'song' to distinguish it. This song is indeed Master Dongshan's written form of the secret Samadhi entrusted by the Buddha. He hoped that both monks and laypeople could chant this song and thereby enter and verify the Buddha way, just by chanting it could help you achieve what Buddha truly hoped for you to do, not just to understand and memorize it, but to 'enter and verify.'


Otherwise, the author of 'the five positions' (Dongshan) would also lose his basis. The blowing and singing of Master Mianshan, harshly criticizing the world's misconceptions, students may well refer to it.


The five positions are slightly biased in the middle, biased in the middle, coming in the middle, reaching in the bias, and arriving in the combination. These are Master Dongshan's most famous five positions of monarch and minister, based on the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi. This shows that if the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi was not written by Dongshan, then where did the five positions of monarch and minister come from? Another text by Master Mianshan, blowing and singing, harshly criticizes the world's misconception that this text was passed from Master Yaoshan to Yunyan and then to Dongshan, which is incorrect. He explained it in detail, and everyone may well refer to it.


This song harmonizes with the Identity of Relative and Absolute and intricately unfolds it. The intentions in the text are slightly different, still using the same rhyme scheme, yet connoisseurs are rare. If you read the Identity of Relative and Absolute first and then this book, you will naturally discover the ethereal connection between the two.


"This song harmonizes with the Identity of Relative and Absolute," the song and the Identity of Relative and Absolute are rhymed together. "Intricately unfolds it. The intentions in the text are slightly different," only that it explains more intricately and in more detail than the Identity of Relative and Absolute, but both texts aim to convey the great meaning that Buddha wanted to transmit. Therefore, the first line of the Identity of Relative and Absolute, 'The great sage of India was intensely focused,' is 'the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi,' which is the 'wondrous heart of Nirvana' transmitted by Buddha, also the 'facing the wall in meditation' transmitted by Bodhidharma; different words, different expressions, all point to 'this.' 'This' if it were easy to explain, would be clearly stated. This 'this' cannot be spoken in words, hard to describe, nor can it be understood by emotion, feeling, 'Ah! That's right! Sudden enlightenment.' That's perception. So it's said to be difficult, very difficult! But also not difficult, because at this moment you yourself are it, just that you always refuse to acknowledge it! Then if you acknowledge it, is everything alright?


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如果肯了,但是認為自己對的那一唸放不掉,自肯的毛病上來,掉進悟病,此悟病最難除。但是讓你「覺得對了」的經驗一定要親驗沒有親自經驗那不算,但是這個經驗太美妙、太高興了,過去的習氣又上來抓住不放。所以自肯還是毛病,我們講「真常之毛病」。


這一篇仍沿用「虞語之韻」,用的韻為虞國的韻。『知音者幾希』,知道的人太少了。瞭 解是必須的,修行方向才不會錯,但瞭解不是充分的,不是瞭解了就代表你是對的。『若先讀參同契,再讀此書,自然會發現兩書虛靈相通』,希望大家把此次講解 的寶鏡三昧歌和上次講的參同契對照著讀,自然會發現兩書是相通的,相通在何處?


忘己時無非己,視宇宙為一枚鏡,則事事物物無一非鏡,胡來胡現,漢來漢現。


他用一句話說明『忘己時無非己』,忘己的時候無非通通都是己,自己沒有忘掉,就有 你、他、有情、無情就分了。己是妄想建立起來的,「我是我」的那個念一直在,我在聽,我在修道..那個我要忘掉!忘掉就不能做事嗎?忘掉就不能生活嗎?還 是一樣喝茶,還是一樣呼吸、心跳,還是一樣思想!不要把思想當作是自己就對了。思緒、思潮來了,想要止也止不住,因為它不屬於你呀!『忘己時無非己』這是 出自曾肇法師寫的「聖人無己無非己」,石頭希遷就是讀到此句,有感而寫成參同契。


忘己的時候沒有一個不是自己,這不是聽過去就算了,你親自反照一下自己看,有沒有體 會出一點味道?就算有一點,也是一下子就過去了,剎那又回到那個我,這就是習氣的力量很強。這個習氣你用道理想的,想不出來;用拜的,拜不出來,怎麼辦? 只管打坐!佛傳的,一上坐,擺在那裡,整個宇宙就是你,你就是整個宇宙,當下現前!以凡夫的身,馬上能夠證成聖體,只有這個方法。不易凡身,頓成聖體。因 為你本來就是一張寶鏡三昧,擺在那裡就是一張寶鏡。不要坐在那裡又搞自己的事,想要成佛,想要把煩惱去掉,想著要打通任都二脈…那就冤枉了!


『視宇宙為一枚鏡,事事物物無一非鏡』,這要徹底在打坐時證驗。本來是這個樣子,你不要想歪就對了。『胡來胡現,漢來漢現』思想來有什麼關係?思想也是法界的動,念頭來、念頭去或是心理想到的都是「胡來胡現,漢來漢現」誰說打坐的時候念頭來、念頭去就不好?誰說的


能照是鏡,所照亦鏡,無他無自,莫能憎愛,元是一空。


『能照是鏡,所照亦鏡』,能照的是鏡子,所照的也是鏡子,重點來了!這叫做「忘己時 無非己」,說法不同,意義一樣。『無他無自』沒有自己也沒有他,這東西弄錯了就變成假平等。不回互是獨立,我和你不同,我和石頭不同,這是不回互,這個弄 不清楚的話,結果把回互也誤會了,誤會變成假平等。真的獨立弄不清楚,就以為通通一樣,結果就變成假平等、假的回互。這樣的話,你的錢都是我的,無自無他 嘛,你的東西我通通搶過來,因為你的就是我的,我的東西當然不是你的。這就是我們意識分別很難弄清楚回互與不回互,獨立又平等同時存在,你怎麼說呢?各個 不一樣,但是各個相同,同時成立嗎?我們用腦子想,怎麼想也想不通,其實原來各個都是這樣子,我們搞不清楚。這一道最難打通了,打通的最好方法還是多多盤 腿比較好,因為盤腿是回互與不回互同時現。兩個同時現?你不要用腦筋想獨立的就獨立,不能平等;平等了就不能獨立,這是廢話,自圓其說的。你上坐盤腿,讓 六根自在,這時說回互與不回互都是多餘的,閒話。


『無他無自的關係,莫能憎愛』,沒有自、沒有他,還能愛還能恨嗎?但是千萬不要又掉 入假平等、假的回互去了。徹底的不回互才能徹底的回互,不能徹底不回戶的話,你能回互嗎?不能嘛!好比房屋的基石和柱子,各安其位,各顯其用,各個盡其本 分才能變成一個屋子。如果柱子不像柱子,地基不像地基,你能完成一個房子嗎?不能!各個要盡其本分,你才能完成一個房子,所以「不回互」徹底了,才能完成 「回戶」的樣子。『莫能憎愛,元是一空』請看信心銘的解說。


忽焉在前,剎時在後,初如處女,終如脫兔。始為巨賈,極盡奢侈,終致零落,在巷間行乞而不知恥。


『忽焉在前,剎時在後,初如處女,終如脫兔。始為巨賈,極盡奢侈,終致零落,在巷間行乞而不知恥』,都是指無窮無限的變換多端,都是空,指無限的那個能變的東西在變,整個是一副寶鏡在那裡動。有時一下子富貴,沒有過一年半年又變成叫化子了,這整個是一張寶鏡在那裡顯。

 

要能隨所為主,轉處實能幽。寶鏡為己,己為寶鏡。寶是萬能自在之義,寶鏡為喻,三昧為法


『要能隨處為主,轉處實能幽』,安分在自己的本分上就是「實能幽」,徹底的不回互才 能「轉處實能幽」。『寶鏡為己,己為寶鏡』,所以不要分做我是寶鏡或是我是寶鏡裡現出來的影子,不對!寶鏡本身就是你,你就是寶鏡,那鏡子上頭有很多的變 化,通通是你自己,無非己嘛!『寶是萬能自在之義,寶鏡為喻,三昧為法』,寶鏡三昧這首歌用寶鏡和三昧勉強分為兩段的話,寶鏡是比方,三昧是法,三昧是正 受,正受是什麼?沒有自我的意見加進去,沒有莫名其妙的邪見、偏見加進去,三昧就是正受。好了,講了這麼多道理,那實際的用功是什麼?


三昧即正受,老實承受與緣合一而忘己。


『老實承受與緣合一而忘己』,只有這一句,大家要記住。寶鏡是比方,三昧是正法,無 己非己…這些是道理,實際上呢?各位現在坐在那裡聽我上課,你的緣是什麼?你聽到我說的內容,腦筋因此在動,在思考、判斷,這都是緣,你有沒有和緣合一? 無時無刻都在動腦筋,我聽到你在講,講的好、講的不好,馬上有一個跑出來在那裡動,合一了嗎?沒有!那合一的人是不知道你在講什麼嗎?沒有意見嗎?或是糊 塗了嗎?這是合一嗎?聽到後在上面動腦筋在思量,你要知道「思量本身究竟是不思量」。「我」在想,那個「我」不要插進去就對了,沒有「我」插進去,你就不 能分別我在講什麼嗎?所以「妄想畢竟是法性」,懂嗎?你說與緣合一,難道你就變成聲音,所以只有聲音在響,聽到的內容,什麼都都不懂?佛、大禪師不是教你 這樣。


把一個澈悟的禪師的牙齒拔掉,但是不上麻藥,認為不痛才是與緣合一,合不合道理?很 多人認為修行是這樣,我修行很到家,所以我拔牙都不上麻醉,真的嗎?就是忍也是「你」在忍,是忍的功夫好。「與緣合一」是「痛就是痛」,會大叫,怎麼不 痛?就是不想痛還是會痛。釋迦牟尼佛拔牙齒不上麻醉,可以不痛嗎?不痛才怪呢!

「老實承受與緣合一而忘己」,這並不是說你覺受都沒有了,思想都不動了,不曉得你在說什麼,不是這樣。清楚你在說什麼,但是上頭沒有一個分別的叫作「我」的妄念,沒有!只是這樣而已,所以「思想本身究竟不是妄想」。所以永嘉禪師【證道歌】裡有「無明實在是佛性」。


最要緊是時時刻刻「老實承受與緣合一而忘己」,能一直不偏離這個就是悟後起修。並不 是澈悟後就絕對不會跑掉、偏離,因此隨隨便變都可以,不是這樣,處處時時「與緣合一而忘己」都不偏離就對了。弄清楚自己就是寶鏡,就是悟了,悟後還要修行 嗎?「修行沒有終止」,這就是曹洞宗最難使人瞭解的地方,使得學人轉學跑到臨濟宗或是淨土宗那裡去。「悟沒有開始,修行沒有終了」一聽就受不了!修行沒有 終止?那我要悟作什麼?我以為悟了就沒有事了,還要一直修行下去?悟沒有開始?那我就不要悟了,本來就是悟嘛。一下子就搞糊塗了,用思想去想佛講的正法, 佛傳的真正的東西,要命呀!

 

死時坦然死,絕無延生之念,故解脫安樂。另有譯為「不受」,因受無受者故。何以如此?甜瓜徹蒂甜,苦瓜連根苦。


他用另一個說法來說明「與緣合一」,『死時坦然死,絕無延生之念,故解脫安樂』。臨終死的時候坦然死,這個時候絕沒有延生之念,想多活一天也好,多活兩天也好,這樣的話就苦了。這是與緣合一的道理,所以解脫安樂。

還有一個三昧翻譯成「不受」,因為沒有受與受者,寶鏡嘛!能受所受沒有的關係,所以 叫不受。三昧正受有時翻譯成不受,何以如此?『甜瓜徹蒂甜,苦瓜連根苦』,這上頭有沒有道理?苦瓜吃下去的時候,根也苦,葉子也苦;甜瓜整個都是甜,哪有 這裡甜,那裡不甜?或是這裡甜多一點,那裡甜少一點?有這事嗎?這是什麼意思?沒有能所的意思。本來沒有能所,為什麼?因為都是一枚寶鏡。


大家剛才聽到鐘響了,下課了,平常我們都是「我自己聽到鐘響」,有沒有分開來?有沒 有一枚寶鏡?不是嘛!處處都是分開來。我是我,鐘響是鐘響,這是不回互。因為徹底的不回互,所以是回互。聲音在我這裡響,還是在那邊響?我這邊沒有響,聽 不見;如果只有我這邊響,那就不要鐘也可以響,我想要響就響就好了,不行!一定要鐘動才行,大家動起來才有,有緣才有。


比方講,我在這裏照鏡子,鏡子上有沒有我的影子?有啊!如果沒有我,鏡子上有沒有顯 出我的影子?沒有!一定要有鏡子,也要有我。也許有人說拿鏡子的人把這個影子照出來的,那叫拿鏡子的人走開,鏡子擺在那裡就好了,行嗎?不是拿鏡子的人把 影子照出來的,那麼是虛空把影子照出來嗎?那影子是誰照的?不是鏡子照,也不是中間的虛空照,也不是拿鏡子的人照,但是,沒有我不行,沒有鏡子也不行,沒 有空間也不行。沒有這些東西,就沒有影子,那這個影子是從哪裡來的?你看,鏡子和我是獨立的,但是這個影子呢?不回互有影子嗎?沒有影子。像這樣用頭腦去 理解的話是這樣子,那麼實際的情況還是希望大家多多盤腿,盤腿放鬆六根,六根讓它放鬆,就是回到自然的規律。「哦!這是自然的規律…」,你不要又加進了自 己的意見了。擺在那裡,思想動來動去也不是你動的,也不是你趕走它,你不趕它,它也走掉啊。念頭動的時候,你不要再加一個「我在想」就好了嘛!飯田禪師整 個序言講了半天就是一個重點:整個都是一個寶鏡三昧在顯,上頭沒有你、我、她,實際的生活怎麼相應?就是和你所看到、所聽到、所接觸到的情景、情況合一, 「與緣合一」這是實際生活用功很好的方法。

張貼時間:11th December 2013,張貼者:zazen

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Here is the translation of the provided text:


"If one is willing, but unable to let go of the thought that they are right, and falls into the fault of self-approval, then they enter the delusion of enlightenment, which is the hardest to eliminate. The experience of 'feeling right' must be personally experienced; without firsthand experience, it doesn't count. However, this experience is so wonderful and joyful that past habits resurface, clinging to it. Thus, self-approval is still a fault, what we call 'the error of true constancy.'"


"This piece still uses the rhyme of Yu (Yu-language), which is the rhyme of the state of Yu. 'Few know it,' meaning too few people understand it. Understanding is necessary so as not to deviate from the right path of practice, but understanding is not enough; understanding does not mean you are right. 'If you first read the Identity of Relative and Absolute and then this book, you will naturally discover that both books communicate the same spirit.' I hope everyone will compare this lecture on the Song of the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi with the previously discussed Identity of Relative and Absolute to naturally discover their interconnectedness. Where do they connect?


"When you forget yourself, there is nothing but yourself. If you see the universe as a single mirror, then everything is a mirror. Barbarians appear as barbarians, Chinese (Han) as Chinese (Han)."


He explains with a phrase, "When you forget yourself, there is nothing but yourself." When you forget yourself, everything becomes yourself. If you haven't forgotten yourself, then there are distinctions between you and others, sentient and insentient. The self is constructed by delusions. The thought 'I am me' is persistent. I am listening, I am practicing... That 'I' needs to be forgotten! Does forgetting it mean you can't do anything or live? You can still drink tea, breathe, have a heartbeat, think! Just don't consider your thoughts as yourself. Thoughts come, and you can't stop them, because they don't belong to you. "When you forget yourself, there is nothing but yourself." This comes from Master Zengzhao's writing, 'The sage has no self, no non-self.' Shitou Xiqian, upon reading this phrase, was inspired to write the Identity of Relative and Absolute.


"When you forget yourself, nothing is not yourself. This is not just something to hear and forget. Have you personally reflected and experienced even a bit of this flavor? Even if there's a little, it's fleeting, returning to that 'I' in an instant. This is the power of habit. You can't think your way out of this habit, nor can you pray it away. So what to do? Just sit in meditation! What the Buddha transmitted, once seated, placed there, the whole universe is you, and you are the whole universe, manifesting right now! With the body of an ordinary being, you can instantly realize the holy body, this is the only method. Without changing your ordinary body, you instantly become the holy body. Because you are originally the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, placed there you are a Jewelled Mirror. Don't sit there and do your own thing, thinking about becoming Buddha, getting rid of afflictions, wanting to open the meridians... That would be a pity!


"Seeing the universe as a single mirror, everything is a mirror," this must be thoroughly verified in meditation. It's originally like this; you just have to not think wrongly. "Barbarians appear as barbarians, Chinese as Chinese." What does it matter if thoughts come? Thoughts are also movements of the Dharma realm. Thoughts coming and going, whatever the mind thinks of, it's all 'barbarians appear as barbarians, Chinese as Chinese.' Who said that when thoughts come and go during meditation, it's bad?


"That which reflects is a mirror, what is reflected is also a mirror, without other, without self, incapable of hatred or love, originally empty."


"That which reflects is a mirror, what is reflected is also a mirror," the reflecting is the mirror, and what is reflected is also the mirror, here's the key point! This is called 'when you forget yourself, there is nothing but yourself,' different words, same meaning. "Without other, without self," having no self and no other, if misunderstood, becomes false equality. Non-interaction is independence; I am different from you, I am different from a stone, that's non-interaction. If this is not clear, then interaction is also misunderstood, becoming false equality. Real independence is misunderstood as everything being the same, leading to false equality, false interaction. Then, your money is mine, no self, no other, right? I can take everything from you because yours is mine, but of course, my things are not yours. This is why it's hard for us to distinguish interaction and non-interaction in consciousness; independence and equality coexist, how to explain it? Each is different, yet each is the same, can both be true? Thinking about it, it's incomprehensible, but in reality, each is just like this, we don't understand. This path is the hardest to clear, the best method is still to sit cross-legged more, because sitting cross-legged shows both interaction and non-interaction at the same time. Both at the same time? Don't think about it. If independent, then not equal; if equal, then not independent, that's nonsense, self-fulfilling. Sit down, relax the six senses, then talking about interaction and non-interaction is superfluous, idle chatter.


"In the relationship of without other, without self, incapable of hatred or love," without self, without other, can you still love or hate? But don't fall into false equality, false interaction. Thorough non-interaction is necessary for thorough interaction. If you can't thoroughly be non-interactive, can you be interactive? No! Like the foundation stones and pillars of a house, each in its place, each showing its function, each fulfilling its role to become a house. If the pillar doesn't act like a pillar, the foundation like a foundation, can you complete a house? No! Each must fulfill its role for you to complete a house, so thorough non-interaction is necessary to complete interaction. "Incapable of hatred or love, originally empty," see the explanation in the "Faith in Mind."


"Suddenly in front, in an instant behind, initially like a virgin, finally like a freed rabbit. At first a great merchant, indulging in extravagance, finally reduced to nothing, begging in the alleys without shame."


"Suddenly in front, in an instant behind, initially like a virgin, finally like a freed rabbit. At first a great merchant, indulging in extravagance, finally reduced to nothing, begging in the alleys without shame," all refer to the endless and varied transformations, all empty, indicating the limitless, changeable thing changing, the entire thing is a moving Jewelled Mirror. Sometimes suddenly wealthy, within a year or half, reduced to a beggar, the entire thing is a manifesting Jewelled Mirror.


"To be able to be the master wherever you go, to turn and be truly hidden. The Jewelled Mirror for oneself, oneself as the Jewelled Mirror. Precious is the meaning of omnipotent freedom, the Jewelled Mirror as a metaphor, samadhi as the law."


"To be able to be the master wherever you go, to turn and be truly hidden," being content in your own role is 'to turn and be truly hidden,' thorough non-interaction is necessary for this. "The Jewelled Mirror for oneself, oneself as the Jewelled Mirror," so don't divide into I am the Jewelled Mirror or I am the shadow manifested in the Jewelled Mirror, not right! The Jewelled Mirror itself is you, you are the Jewelled Mirror, the many changes on that mirror, all yourself, nothing but yourself! "Precious is the meaning of omnipotent freedom, the Jewelled Mirror as a metaphor, samadhi as the law," the Song of the Jewelled Mirror Samadhi, if forcibly divided into two sections, the Jewelled Mirror is the metaphor, samadhi is the law, samadhi is right reception, what is right reception? Without adding your own opinion, without adding baseless wrong views or biases, samadhi is right reception. Alright, after all this talk, what is the actual practice?


"Samadhi is right reception, honestly receiving and merging with conditions while forgetting oneself."


"Just this phrase, remember it. The Jewelled Mirror is a metaphor, samadhi is the true law, no self, non-self... these are the principles, but in reality? You are sitting there listening to my lecture, what is your condition? You hear what I say, your mind moves, thinks, judges, this is all condition, have you merged with the condition? Constantly thinking, I hear you speaking, good or bad, immediately a thought arises, have you merged? No! Does the one who has merged not know what you are saying? No opinion? Or confused? Is this merging? After hearing and thinking about it, you need to know 'thinking itself is ultimately non-thinking.' 'I' am thinking, just don't insert that 'I,' without 'I' can you not distinguish what I am saying? So 'delusion itself is ultimately Dharma nature,' understand? You say merging with conditions, does it mean you become sound, so only sound rings, and you don't understand the content you hear? Buddha, the great Zen masters didn't teach you that.


Pull out the tooth of an enlightened Zen master without anesthesia, thinking that not feeling pain is merging with conditions, does that make sense? Many people think that's what practice is, I am so advanced in my practice, so I don't use


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anesthesia for tooth extraction, really? Even if you endure, it's 'you' who are enduring, it's the skill of endurance. 'Merging with conditions' means 'pain is pain.' You will scream; how can it not hurt? Even if you don't want it to hurt, it will still hurt. Could the Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, not feel pain when extracting a tooth without anesthesia? It would be strange if it didn't hurt!


"'Honestly receiving and merging with conditions while forgetting oneself' does not mean you have no sensations, no thoughts, not knowing what is being said; it's not like that. You understand what is being said, but there is no discriminating thought called 'I' on top of it, none! It's just like that, so 'thought itself is ultimately not delusion.' Therefore, Master Yongjia in the 'Song of Enlightenment' wrote, 'Ignorance itself is the Buddha nature.'


The most important thing is to 'honestly receive and merge with conditions while forgetting oneself' at all times. To not deviate from this is post-enlightenment cultivation. It's not that after thorough enlightenment, one will never deviate or drift away, allowing for anything to happen; it's not like that. At all times and in all places, 'merging with conditions while forgetting oneself' without deviation is right. Realizing that you yourself are the Jewelled Mirror is enlightenment. Is there still practice after enlightenment? 'There is no end to practice,' and this is the most difficult aspect of the Soto school for students to understand, leading them to switch to the Rinzai school or the Pure Land school. 'There is no beginning to enlightenment, and no end to practice' is unbearable to hear! No end to practice? Then why seek enlightenment? I thought once enlightened, there's nothing more to do, but I have to keep practicing? No beginning to enlightenment? Then I won't seek enlightenment, I'm already enlightened. This gets confusing, thinking about the true Dharma transmitted by the Buddha with thoughts, it's fatal!


"To die calmly when it's time, without any thoughts of prolonging life, therefore liberated and at peace. Another translation is 'not receiving,' because there is no receiver in receiving. Why so? Sweet melons are sweet through to the stem, bitter melons are bitter to the root."


He explains another way to describe 'merging with conditions': "To die calmly when it's time, without any thoughts of prolonging life, therefore liberated and at peace." At the moment of death, to die calmly, without any thoughts of prolonging life for a day or two, that would be suffering. This is the principle of merging with conditions, therefore liberated and at peace. Another interpretation of samadhi translates it as 'not receiving,' because there is no receiver in receiving, the Jewelled Mirror! The relationship of able to receive and what is received, thus called not receiving. Sometimes samadhi, right reception, is translated as not receiving. Why so? "Sweet melons are sweet through to the stem, bitter melons are bitter to the root," does this make sense? When eating a bitter melon, the root is also bitter, the leaves are bitter; a sweet melon is entirely sweet, is there any part that's sweet and another not? Or one part sweeter than another? Does that happen? What does this mean? It means no subject and object. Originally there is no subject and object, why? Because it's all a single Jewelled Mirror.


When everyone just heard the bell ring, class ended, we usually think, 'I myself heard the bell ring,' is there separation? Is there a single Jewelled Mirror? No! Everywhere is separation. I am me, the bell ring is the bell ring, this is non-interaction. Because of thorough non-interaction, there is interaction. Does the sound ring here with me, or over there? It doesn't ring here, I can't hear it; if it only rings here, then there's no need for a bell, I just think of ringing and it rings, no! A bell must move to ring, everyone moves, then there is, there are conditions.


For example, I'm looking in a mirror, is there my reflection in the mirror? Yes! If there's no me, is there my reflection in the mirror? No! There must be a mirror, and there must be me. Maybe someone says the person holding the mirror brings out the reflection, then let the person holding the mirror walk away, just leave the mirror there, does it work? It's not the person holding the mirror who brings out the reflection, then is it the void that does? Who reflects the reflection? It's not the mirror, not the void in between, not the person holding the mirror, but without me, it doesn't work, without the mirror, it doesn't work, without space, it doesn't work. Without these things, there is no reflection, then where does this reflection come from? You see, the mirror and I are independent, but what about this reflection? Is there a reflection without non-interaction? No reflection. Understanding it this way with the mind is like this, but the actual situation is still hoped that everyone sits cross-legged more, relax the six senses, let them relax, that's returning to nature's law. 'Oh! This is nature's law...' don't add your opinion again. Placed there, thoughts moving around are not moved by you, nor are you chasing them away, you don't chase them, they also go away. When thoughts move, just don't add another 'I am thinking' and it's good! Master Iida's entire foreword talked for a long time about one key point: the whole thing is a Jewelled Mirror Samadhi manifesting, without you, me, her, how to respond in real life? It is to merge with what you see, hear, and touch, the scenes, situations you encounter, 'merging with conditions' is a good method for practical life practice.

Posted time: 11th December 2013, Posted by: zazen


While sharing the seven stages with people with I AM realization in reddit, I find that the teachings of mystic Neville Lancelot Goddard is popular in reddit. Neville teaches people to realize the I AM and use the power of Source/Awareness/Consciousness to manifest one's desires through visualization. 

His teachings reminded me of a conversation with John Tan back in 2006.

"for buddhism, there is a way of seeing the 'actuality' from moment to moment.  It is the path towards enlightenment. :) for some ppl, they have a glimpse of the source but live in the symbolic layer." "bob has dwelled too deep into the symbolic layer and tasted the power of it in relationship to this conventional reality.  It is harder for him to understand the  second stage as stated in the tozan. :)" "Buddha taught the path of living in reality.  The reality is the ultimate reality.  Sentient being deluded with forms and names cannot understand the essence of the  teaching.  This is the only way towards ultimate liberation. It is not about manipulation of a conventional reality. the reality of what bob talk about is the conventional reality. Because they are unable to know the bliss of nirvana, they seek power to control and overcome the conventional reality. Being so, it is difficult for these people to truly understand the teachings. The source that is seen is only as a place for them to tap mystical power over the conventional reality.  Not for the purpose of enlightenment. :)" - John Tan, 2006


Also see: Tozan Ryokai's Verses on the Five Ranks


Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

....


Session Start: Thursday, August 03, 2006



(11:35 PM) AEN: http://simpo.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=insight&action=display&thread=1154268689

(11:35 PM) (E-mail Address Not Verified) has changed his/her status to Online

(11:36 PM) AEN: Dear Forum,


Xsurf posted: "See deep silence as flow,

See form as emptiness,

See actuality as tendencies,

See solidity as flux."


I like this, but I would say if I were writing this....


"See actuality as potential reality." It is the same, but is using modern terms, and little different twist of the concept involved.


There is a question in all of this that we must ask ourselves. And the question is: "What is more important to us; our reality or the actuality?"


bob

(11:36 PM) John: bob is from where?

(11:36 PM) AEN: simpo

(11:36 PM) AEN: forum

(11:36 PM) John: i mean...he is from which country?

(11:36 PM) John: US?

(11:39 PM) AEN: not sure but not singapore most likely

(11:42 PM) John: bob has dwelled too deep into the symbolic layer and tasted the power of it in relationship to this conventional reality.  It is harder for him to understand the  

second stage as stated in the tozan. :)

(11:43 PM) AEN: oic..

(11:44 PM) AEN: what u mean by dwelled too deeply into the symbolic layer

(11:45 PM) John: psychic deals with the symbolic layer is similar to the tantric practices.

(11:45 PM) AEN: erm can explain ? :P

(11:45 PM) John: why is jhanas not the same as insight meditation?

(11:46 PM) AEN: jhana is a form of absorption, insight meditation is seeing into reality

(11:46 PM) John: seeing reality is not what Buddha taught. :)

(11:47 PM) AEN: huh?

(11:47 PM) AEN: wat u mean

(11:48 PM) John: Buddha taught the path of living in reality.  The reality is the ultimate reality.  Sentient being deluded with forms and names cannot understand the essence of the  

teaching.  This is the only way towards ultimate liberation.

(11:49 PM) John: It is not about manipulation of a conventional reality.

(11:49 PM) John: the reality of what bob talk about is the conventional reality.

(11:50 PM) John: Because they are unable to know the bliss of nirvana, they seek power to control and overcome the conventional reality.

(11:51 PM) John: Being so, it is difficult for these people to truly understand the teachings.

(11:51 PM) AEN: icic

(11:51 PM) AEN: overcome conventional reality by psychic powers?

(11:52 PM) John: The source that is seen is only as a place for them to tap mystical power over the conventional reality.  Not for the purpose of enlightenment. :)

(11:52 PM) AEN: oic isit

(11:52 PM) AEN: but hmm i tot bob is already to certain extent enlightened?

(11:53 PM) John: i have told u many times about the first stage and the different dimension of the first stage, he is not in the second stage yet.

(11:53 PM) AEN: icic

(11:54 PM) John: u know the different between tozan five degree of enlightenment and the general 3 stages i told u?

(11:54 PM) AEN: The source that is seen is only as a place for them to tap mystical power --> oh so tats wat tao te ching is saying at the end of the 1st verse

(11:54 PM) AEN: as in, its possibility

(11:54 PM) AEN: hmm yea

(11:55 PM) John: yes. :)

(11:55 PM) John: what are the diff?

(11:55 PM) AEN: which one

(11:55 PM) John: what i told u about the 3 stages and tozan 5 stages?

(11:55 PM) AEN: oh sorry

(11:55 PM) AEN: u mean wat are the difference between the two 'sets' of stages

(11:55 PM) John: yeah

(11:56 PM) AEN: u said the 5 stages is more like.. in terms of engaging in activities?

(11:57 PM) John: can u map the 3 stages i told u and tell me the diff?

(11:58 PM) AEN: 1st stage is I AM, 2nd stage is all is emptiness, 3rd stage is abiding presence, self so

(11:59 PM) John: how does tozan 5 degree map to the 3 stages?

(12:02 AM) AEN: 2nd stage in tozan is the "1.5-2.0" in the 3 stages of presence?

(12:04 AM) AEN: u there?

(12:04 AM) AEN: ll

(12:04 AM) AEN: lol

(12:04 AM) John: no..

(12:04 AM) John: they are exactly the same. :)

(12:04 AM) AEN: huh??

(12:04 AM) AEN: what are exactly the same?

(12:04 AM) John: 1-1, 2-2, 3-3

(12:04 AM) AEN: then what about 4 and 5

(12:04 AM) AEN: lol

(12:05 AM) John: lol...u must understand the first 3 stages first. :)

(12:05 AM) AEN: oic

(12:06 AM) John: the first is the "I AM" and is what that most mystic undergo

(12:06 AM) John: it is always sinking back to the source.

(12:06 AM) John: their understanding is not complete

(12:06 AM) AEN: icic

(12:07 AM) John: even they have experience that the source is everything in a meditative stage, they are unable to live in and fully authenticate it moment by moment.

(12:07 AM) AEN: oic

(12:07 AM) John: only one that has thoroughly understand no-self and emptiness is able to do it.

(12:08 AM) John: they see the phenomenon world as source

(12:09 AM) John: the ultimate level of the first stage is the ground of being and seeing everything comes out from it

(12:09 AM) John: even life and death are from it

(12:09 AM) AEN: oic

(12:09 AM) John: these practitioner will also sink back to the source

(12:10 AM) John: because they are unable to see the source whenever and wherever they are.  Though they may say that the source is not lost and is ever present, the actual experience  

isn't there.

(12:11 AM) AEN: icic..

(12:11 AM) John: for one that enters the second stage, realness is at the arising and ceasing, nirvana is samsara.

(12:12 AM) John: the realness is at the phenomenal world.

(12:12 AM) AEN: oic

(12:12 AM) John: there is no need to sink back to the source.  No I is needed.

(12:12 AM) John: This is true enlightenment. :)

(12:12 AM) AEN: icic..

(12:13 AM) John: this is the stage where zen master always tok about just the manifestation.

(12:13 AM) John: and there is no ending to the experience.

(12:13 AM) AEN: oic..

(12:14 AM) John: the third is the self arising.  This is the true self arising as it already undergo the second stage.

(12:14 AM) John: what did the tozan say...

(12:14 AM) AEN: III. The Coming from within the Real:


The Relative within the Absolute [sho-chu-rai]


In this rank, the Mahayana bodhisattva does not remain in the state of attainment that he has realized, but from the midst of the sea of effortlessness he lets his great uncaused compassion  

shine forth. Standing upon the Four Bodhisattva Vows, he lashes forward the Dharma-wheel of " seeking Bodhi above and saving sentient beings below." This is the so-called "coming-from within  

the going-to, the going-to within the coming-from." Moreover, he must know the moment of [the meeting of] the paired opposites, brightness and darkness. Therefore the rank of " The Arrival  

at Mutual Integration " has been set up.



(12:15 AM) John: The Coming from within the Real

(12:15 AM) AEN: icic

(12:16 AM) AEN: which means self arising

(12:16 AM) John: yes...the 'coming' is the self-arising

(12:16 AM) AEN: icic..

(12:16 AM) John: no more 'seeing'

(12:16 AM) AEN: oic

(12:17 AM) John: no more apparent within real and real within apparent

(12:17 AM) AEN: icic..

(12:18 AM) John: apparent within real is the ground being that everything pops in and out that i said.  Many taught that this ultimate experience of the first stage is all.

(12:18 AM) John: real within apparent is what no-self and emptiness taught.

(12:18 AM) AEN: oic..

(12:18 AM) John: the 'coming' out of the real is the effortless self arising

(12:19 AM) AEN: icic

(12:19 AM) AEN: then wat about The Arrival at Mutual Integration? lol

(12:20 AM) John: this is the true understanding of the self-arising. :)

(12:20 AM) AEN: 3rd stage not yet true understanding?

(12:20 AM) AEN: or refined understanding?

(12:20 AM) AEN: as in in 4th stage

(12:20 AM) John: only in opposites u see self-arising.

(12:21 AM) John: din u see what i wrote about the un-manifested as the manifestation

(12:21 AM) AEN: oic..

(12:21 AM) John: the stillness as the flow

(12:21 AM) AEN: oh ya

(12:21 AM) AEN: icic..

(12:21 AM) AEN: oh i remember hui neng said something

(12:22 AM) AEN: like, always teach in the other opposite

(12:22 AM) AEN: like if someone say this, u reply with the opposite

(12:22 AM) AEN: something like that

(12:22 AM) John: that is to refine the knowledge...

(12:22 AM) AEN: icic

(12:22 AM) John: hui neng in the first and second stanza are all toking about the source.

(12:23 AM) AEN: which stanza?

(12:23 AM) John: first is the famous one, no dust alight one lah

(12:23 AM) AEN: oic

(12:23 AM) AEN: second?

(12:23 AM) John: the second one is when the 5th patriarch taught him then he said how wonderful.

(12:24 AM) AEN: huh which one :P

(12:24 AM) John: why seek when the source hasn't moved

(12:24 AM) John: why seek when the source is already complete

(12:24 AM) AEN: oic..

(12:24 AM) AEN: hmm cant remember where

(12:24 AM) AEN: second one is 5th patriarch say one?

(12:24 AM) John: i also can't remember

(12:24 AM) AEN: or hui neng say one

(12:24 AM) AEN: icic

(12:24 AM) John: hui neng...

(12:24 AM) AEN: oic

(12:24 AM) John: 5th patriach where got tok like that lah

(12:25 AM) AEN: hahahaah

(12:26 AM) John: the tozan 3 stage onwards is stabilizing only and the importance of vow...

(12:26 AM) AEN: oic

(12:26 AM) John: even when one reaches the 2 and 3 stages, the karmic propensities are still functioning

(12:27 AM) John: why are vows important, one must know the causal causes. :)

(12:27 AM) AEN: what causal causes

(12:27 AM) John: dunno...only buddha knows...lol

(12:27 AM) AEN: har

(12:27 AM) AEN: lol

(12:27 AM) AEN: icic

(12:27 AM) John: still remember i ask u the 4 imponderables

(12:27 AM) AEN: yea

(12:28 AM) John: when one reaches the 3 rd stage, he is only dealing with this pre-conscious karmic propensities

(12:29 AM) John: a normal practitioner will go by self effort.

(12:29 AM) John: not by vows. :)

(12:29 AM) AEN: oic

(12:29 AM) John: vows are not just about compassions

(12:29 AM) AEN: hmm i read ven sheng yen say, only a 8th bhumi bodhisattva no longer need to rely on vows

(12:29 AM) AEN: oic then

(12:29 AM) AEN: cos 8th bhumi immovable

(12:30 AM) John: :)  Not everyone can comment about the vows. :)

(12:30 AM) AEN: oic

(12:31 AM) John: making a vow that is indefinite

(12:31 AM) John: u know the consequences?

(12:31 AM) AEN: what consequence

(12:31 AM) John: who knows the consequences besides the Blessed One. :)

(12:32 AM) AEN: but it will lead one towards buddhahood isnt it

(12:32 AM) John: it is only through faith.

(12:32 AM) AEN: huh

(12:32 AM) AEN: oic

(12:32 AM) AEN: without vows, one may become arhant but not reach buddhahood

(12:32 AM) AEN: i tink

(12:32 AM) John: this is the main diff. :)

(12:33 AM) John: the power of vow is a form of faith for the sage level that

(12:34 AM) John: arahat and pratyeka buddha don't know.

(12:34 AM) AEN: oic..

(12:34 AM) John: so one relies on the faith of the buddha's words.

(12:34 AM) AEN: icic

(12:35 AM) AEN: have u taken any vows then? haha

(12:35 AM) John: hahhaaha have not. :P

(12:35 AM) AEN: icic

(12:36 AM) John: u know the different of a 'pratyeka and arahat' and sentient being making a vow?

(12:36 AM) AEN: what is it?

(12:37 AM) AEN: dunno leh

(12:37 AM) John: lol...cannot tell u. :P

(12:37 AM) AEN: actually i heard teacher chen is also asked by master to 'hui xiao xiang da'.. meaning walk mahayana path

(12:37 AM) AEN: oic why

(12:37 AM) AEN: lol

(12:38 AM) John: hui xiao xiang da?

(12:38 AM) AEN: hold on

(12:39 AM) AEN: ????

(12:39 AM) John: ic. :)

(12:43 AM) John: if one person hasn't attained true understanding and started telling ppl "I AM" is the ultimate way towards liberation, is that good?

(12:43 AM) AEN: nope

(12:43 AM) John: why?

(12:43 AM) AEN: mislead ppl?

(12:45 AM) John: until one truly understand why is non-doing and when pre-conscious karmic propensities is fully understood, i don't want to make comments about vows. :)

(12:46 AM) John: only if it comes from the inner selfless arising of that person and that person must make his/her own decision.

(12:46 AM) John: this is very important.

(12:46 AM) AEN: oic..

(12:47 AM) John: because it is an infinite vow.

(12:47 AM) John: it is a forever commitment. :)

(12:47 AM) AEN: icic..

(12:48 AM) John: it has to come from that person himself.  I normally do not give ppl any advises regarding this. :)

(12:48 AM) AEN: oic

(12:49 AM) AEN: but eventually everyone will reach buddhahood isnt it

(12:49 AM) AEN: even arhants and pratyekabuddhas will reach buddhahood

(12:50 AM) John: after the 3rd stage until all karmic propensities subsides, there is no diff.  When one reaches the 2nd stage, he/she already know what is it all about. :)

(12:50 AM) AEN: u mean vows?

(12:50 AM) John: not vows.

(12:51 AM) AEN: wat is all about

(12:51 AM) John: about the meaning of liberation

(12:51 AM) AEN: icic..

(12:51 AM) AEN: wat u mean by 'there is no diff'

(12:52 AM) John: there is no difference in terms of enlightenment regarding the source.

(12:52 AM) AEN: oic..

(12:52 AM) John: our Buddha's nature remains, nothing can be done at all.

(12:53 AM) John: it is on other matters....hehehe...

(12:53 AM) AEN: oh haha

(12:53 AM) AEN: eh brb

(12:54 AM) AEN: back

(12:54 AM) AEN: on other matters?

(12:56 AM) John: u better sleep...getting late. :)

(12:56 AM) AEN: haha ok

(12:56 AM) John: anyway bob question is quite important for simpo. :)

(12:56 AM) AEN: how come

(12:57 AM) John: it depends on which path he wants to walk. :)

(12:57 AM) AEN: why

(12:57 AM) AEN: wat path

(12:58 AM) John: some ppl doesn't want enlightenment and liberation leh

(12:58 AM) AEN: What is more important to us; our reality or the actuality?

(12:58 AM) AEN: so wat wld be ur ans

(12:58 AM) AEN: haha

(12:59 AM) John: for buddhism, there is a way of seeing the 'actuality' from moment to moment.  It is the path towards enlightenment. :)

(1:00 AM) John: for some ppl, they have a glimpse of the source but live in the symbolic layer.

(1:00 AM) AEN: oic..

(1:01 AM) John: sheng and xian, u know what is the diff or not?

(1:01 AM) AEN: wats the diff

(1:02 AM) John: how is xian written in chinese character?

(1:02 AM) AEN: ?

(1:02 AM) John: nope

(1:02 AM) AEN: huh

(1:02 AM) AEN: which one

(1:02 AM) John: xian1

(1:02 AM) AEN: shen xian?

(1:02 AM) John: yeah

(1:03 AM) AEN: ?

(1:03 AM) John: yeah....what does that mean?

(1:03 AM) AEN: xian is immortal?

(1:03 AM) John: human in the mountain. :P

(1:03 AM) John: u think doing what...

(1:03 AM) John: practicing

(1:04 AM) AEN: oic

(1:05 AM) John: as for u, u practice according to ur ren chen and don't get misled.

(1:05 AM) AEN: icic

(1:05 AM) AEN: ok

(1:05 AM) John: bob question let simpo answer. :)

(1:05 AM) John: lol

(1:05 AM) AEN: hahaha

(1:05 AM) AEN: icic

(1:06 AM) AEN: anyway wat different path. one never lead to enlightenment ?

(1:06 AM) John: will lah...just longer...lol

(1:06 AM) AEN: haha.. how come

(1:06 AM) AEN: wat do u mean

(1:06 AM) AEN: so which path is faster?

(1:06 AM) AEN: lol

(1:07 AM) AEN: but bob seems to imply 'actuality' is more important right

(1:07 AM) John: because one is unable to 'see', a lifetime gets wasted. :)

(1:07 AM) AEN: oic..

(1:08 AM) John: bob uses another way to approach the source lah

(1:09 AM) John: ultimately one must go beyond the symbolic layer to come face to face and get authenticated every moment.

(1:09 AM) John: however at the intermediate stage, one might resort to symbols to understand the deeper levels of our consciousness.

(1:09 AM) AEN: icic

(1:09 AM) AEN: by symbols wat exactly u mean

(1:10 AM) John: dreams, science, philosophies, math, religion, psychic....etc

(1:10 AM) John: all these belongs to the symbolic layer

(1:10 AM) John: shamanism

(1:10 AM) AEN: all these can approach source meh?

(1:11 AM) John: psychic goes deeper into the deeper layer

(1:11 AM) John: of course

(1:11 AM) AEN: oic..

(1:11 AM) John: but they will not reach it. :P

(1:11 AM) AEN: reach the source?

(1:11 AM) AEN: oic

(1:11 AM) AEN: bob and simpo practises dream interpretation, and stuff like that

(1:11 AM) AEN: is tat wat u're saying?

(1:11 AM) John: they will come to a point like a raft

(1:11 AM) AEN: oic

(1:12 AM) John: not only that

(1:12 AM) John: reiki

(1:12 AM) AEN: reiki is just a healing practise rite

(1:12 AM) John: visualization...concentration...etc

(1:12 AM) AEN: oic..

(1:12 AM) John: all is to touch the source.

(1:12 AM) AEN: oic

(1:12 AM) John: u think reiki never understand anything about God can heal ah

(1:13 AM) AEN: haha dunnu leh

(1:13 AM) AEN: but seem like anyone can practise reiki?

(1:13 AM) AEN: maybe i wrong

(1:13 AM) John: yeah...it is the sensing of the energy...

(1:14 AM) John: when one understand the consciousness and just the level of no-self, he will know what is meant by qi and reiki

(1:14 AM) AEN: oic..

(1:14 AM) AEN: but i tot qi is accessible to non enlightened ppl? like by practising qigong and stuff like that

(1:15 AM) AEN: hmm even eckhart tolle talk about Qi and stuff

(1:15 AM) John: enlightenment is about understanding no-self and emptiness

(1:15 AM) AEN: he says it is something that connects the unmanifested and the manifested world

(1:15 AM) John: not about tapping energy from the source, told u liao.

(1:15 AM) AEN: oic

(1:17 AM) John: precisely...in no-self, there is just movement, that is the sensation of qi without awakening of prajna wisdom.

(1:17 AM) AEN: oic..

(1:18 AM) John: just like one suddenly enter into a thoughtless state, instead of coming to the awareness that it is the key towards understand our buddha's nature

(1:19 AM) John: one experience some other stuff in a thoughtless state and go the other way.

(1:19 AM) AEN: oic...

(1:19 AM) John: go sleep. :)

(1:19 AM) AEN: haha ok

(1:19 AM) AEN: gd nite

(1:19 AM) John: nite


Session Start: Sunday, August 06, 2006


(12:33 PM) John: anyway u know about the "AMness is God" that i write?

(12:33 PM) AEN: yea i saw

(12:33 PM) AEN: what about it

(12:33 PM) John: that is exactly the "apparent in the real"

(12:33 PM) AEN: icic

(12:33 PM) AEN: ya i remember

(12:33 PM) John: more elaborate description.  

(12:33 PM) AEN: oic

(12:34 PM) John: but casino say i missed something remember...i say unless he can tell me what is no-self and emptiness.  

(12:34 PM) AEN: hahaha

(12:34 PM) AEN: yea

(12:34 PM) John: lol

(12:35 PM) John: but casino is still maybe 0.25...so don't know the profound teaching of no-self and emptiness...therefore talking about the one mind is dangerous.

(12:35 PM) AEN: oic..

(12:35 PM) AEN: why do u tink casino no longer post?

(12:35 PM) AEN: away or busy?

(12:35 PM) John: most ppl just see the mind as invisible agent.

(12:35 PM) AEN: icic..

(12:35 PM) John: lol...away so affect ur rating?

(12:35 PM) AEN: eh btw longchen today pm me, after i pm him some dzogchen links

(12:35 PM) John:  

(12:35 PM) AEN:


Thanks for the link.


For the time being, i think i will stay clear of esoteric practices. Stabilizing in presence is more important. Smile


Actually, realising that 'sense of self is not the doer' will lead one into a state of going with the flow. This going with the flow will lead one into the present moment. However, to be in it most of the time is not easy and takes much courage especially under stressful condition. Under stressful condition thinking mind takes over completely and see the matter at hand as being very important...grasping.


will have a long way to go before stabilizing in presence more fully. This itself is the Dzogchen practice of trekchod.


regards


simpo

(12:35 PM) AEN: no la just wondering

(12:35 PM) AEN: hehe

(12:36 PM) AEN: not too concerned about ratings la.. EH this month i tink will high rating but very troublesome, all the atheist attacking their forum

(12:36 PM) AEN: lol

(12:37 PM) John: lol

(12:37 PM) John: where did u get the simpo reply

(12:38 PM) AEN: by PM

(12:38 PM) John: ic...u wrote to him in pm?

(12:38 PM) John: regarding bob?

(12:38 PM) John: lol

(12:38 PM) AEN: no no

(12:38 PM) AEN: regarding namkhai norbu's internet transmission of dzogchen

(12:38 PM) AEN: i gave him some links

(12:39 PM) John: ic.  

(12:40 PM) John: why Dzogchen practice, what he experience is already Dzogchen.

(12:40 PM) John: There is nothing else.

(12:40 PM) AEN: oic..

(12:41 PM) John: yeah...but he knows

(12:41 PM) John: will have a long way to go before stabilizing in presence more fully. This itself is the Dzogchen practice of trekchod.

(12:41 PM) AEN: hehe

(12:41 PM) AEN: icic

(12:43 PM) John: the complete losing of the self is very important, the imageless when clear will lead to the next stage.  

(12:44 PM) AEN: oic..

(12:46 PM) AEN: actually they're wrong to say pratyekabuddha is only The Apparent within the Real rite?

(12:46 PM) AEN: lol

(12:46 PM) John: yes yes yes...very good.  

(12:46 PM) AEN: haha

(12:46 PM) John: this is what i want to say.  

(12:46 PM) John: under estimate the pratyeka buddha.  

(12:46 PM) John: lol

(12:46 PM) AEN: lol

(12:47 PM) AEN: so u going to comment in ur post?

(12:47 PM) John: nope...

(12:48 PM) John: if pratyeka buddha is at the first stage, they know not a single trace of nirvana.  

(12:49 PM) AEN: hahaha

(12:49 PM) AEN: icic

(12:50 PM) AEN: i tink their definition of pratyekabuddha is probably 'mystics who never heard the buddha'

(12:50 PM) AEN: hahaha

(12:51 PM) John: possible...but the term arhats and pratyekabuddha....i think the e-book, the forest monk that cry also know the importance of anatta (comments by Soh: more on One Mind and nondual, not yet anatta)

(12:51 PM) John: remember he has been pondering why his master said "apparent in the real" is a great danger?

(12:51 PM) AEN: hmm theravada the anatta is very important isnt it?

(12:51 PM) AEN: oic yea

(12:51 PM) AEN: i remember

(12:52 PM) John: all ppl that has true experience and undergone that stage knows its danger and therefore refuse to tok about 'self'

(12:52 PM) AEN: oic

(12:52 PM) John: so no-self and emptiness

(12:52 PM) AEN: icic

(12:52 PM) John: i do not want to tok about One Mind.

(12:52 PM) AEN: one mind = self?

(12:53 PM) John: no...but mistaken to be so.

(12:53 PM) AEN: icic

(12:53 PM) John: there is no attributes that is self like

(12:53 PM) AEN: icic..

(12:53 PM) John: why do we call it self?

(12:53 PM) John: because of its luminosity?

(12:53 PM) John: what about the emptiness nature?

(12:53 PM) John: blind to the emptiness nature, we grasped and hold on to views

(12:54 PM) AEN: icic..

(12:56 PM) John: got to go.  

(12:57 PM) AEN: ok cya



Session Start: Monday, August 07, 2006

(5:33 PM) John: There is a chapter in the "A New Earth" where Eckhart Tolle mentioned about, touching a cup or anything, be without thoughts and not naming anything, then senses it...did u  
read about that?

(5:37 PM) John: i read in borders the other day.
(5:37 PM) AEN: o icic
(5:37 PM) AEN: y wat about tat
(5:38 PM) John: That to me is a really important chapter. :)
(5:38 PM) AEN: oic..
(5:38 PM) John: the description is pretty good...
(5:38 PM) AEN: icic
(5:41 PM) John: http://www.plotinus.com/ego_subjectivity.htm
(5:41 PM) AEN: eh how u got that plotinus link??
(5:41 PM) John: bob and dianah i think participated in this forum.
(5:41 PM) AEN: oh yes
(5:41 PM) John: i think.
(5:41 PM) AEN: simpo sent u?
(5:41 PM) John: nope
(5:41 PM) AEN: yes its link to this website
(5:41 PM) AEN: but i wonder where the forum is
(5:41 PM) John: it is about pure subjectivity and no-self
(5:41 PM) AEN: oh then how u found that website
(5:42 PM) AEN: oic..
(5:42 PM) John: vedanta and pure subjectivity is pretty close to buddhism.
(5:42 PM) John: read about it...but hehhe...just keep to urself....it is very close to what i told longchen
(5:43 PM) AEN: oic..
(5:43 PM) John: however the explanation isn't clear due to the clarity of experience is still not thorough.
(5:43 PM) AEN: icic
(5:43 PM) AEN: who do u tink wrote this
(5:43 PM) John: a lady...like the mentor of dianah like that. :)
(5:43 PM) AEN: oic
(5:43 PM) AEN: dianah got mentor?
(5:44 PM) John: yeah....but this lady that is the owner of the website has a master that is a mystic and a philosopher...she intro about him.
(5:44 PM) AEN: oic..
(5:45 PM) John: read it, quite good. :)
(5:45 PM) AEN: ok
(5:45 PM) John: and tell me how to go deeper into explaining no-self.
(5:45 PM) John: anyway ur exams coming right?
(5:45 PM) AEN: in a month
(5:47 PM) John: it is quite good...but the key lies in the 'real within the apparent'.  Though the experience is there, still in hoover around the no-self and AMness.  Unable to break  
through.
(5:47 PM) John: it must be stabilize by touching the real within the apparent.
(5:48 PM) AEN: oic..
(5:48 PM) John: Consciousness must not be realised as a 'thought and mental' process
(5:48 PM) AEN: icic
(5:51 PM) John: It is as real as everything that is experienced.
(5:51 PM) John: nothing cannot be more real than it.
(5:51 PM) John: this realness must be experienced.
(5:52 PM) John: that is, must be in form and formless, visible and invisible aspects of everything.
(5:52 PM) AEN: oic..
(5:58 PM) John: when ppl tok about pure subjectivity, it is easy to assume that they are toking about the 'conceptual' layer.  This is the problem.
(5:58 PM) AEN: oic..
(5:59 PM) AEN: wat u mean talking about conceptual layer
(5:59 PM) John: means symbolic layer.
(5:59 PM) John: using thoughts and images
(6:00 PM) AEN: pure subjectivity as they describe is beyond conceptual/symbolic layer isnt it?
(6:01 PM) John: yes
(6:01 PM) John: Shen Hui a Zen Master says: “It is the absence of the absence of subject and object as phenomena that is the ultimate Truth that awakens.” And Ramesh Balsekar continues by 
adding: “there is only a subjective happening, never an action done by any entity.”
(6:01 PM) John: this is really good...
(6:01 PM) AEN: oic
(6:02 PM) John: longchen will now hoover at this level.  Hopefully he can pass this stage 3 yrs later.
(6:02 PM) AEN: icic..
(6:02 PM) AEN: next stage is wat
(6:03 PM) AEN: emptiness?
(6:03 PM) John: i wrote to him to focus on the realness of the phenomenal world
(6:03 PM) AEN: oic
(6:03 PM) John: emptiness is a raft...
(6:04 PM) John: it is to give and point us a direction to intuitively understand the most puzzling and ungraspable nature of consciousness
(6:05 PM) John: without going through this level of understanding, consciousness that is understood still remain in the form of "AMness".  A transcendental experience clouded with karmic  
'self' propensities.
(6:05 PM) John: there is no true understanding.
(6:05 PM) AEN: oic..
(6:05 PM) AEN: is longchen still at the 'amness' stage
(6:05 PM) John: actually there is nothing wrong with "AMness"
(6:06 PM) John: a mystic can treat what Buddha taught as the ultimate experience of "AMness"
(6:06 PM) John: it just transformed to Thusness.
(6:06 PM) John: hehehe
(6:06 PM) AEN: oic.. haha
(6:09 PM) John: if longchen can stabilize in 3 yrs time, he will be able to enter incredible bliss at will.
(6:09 PM) AEN: wat incredible bliss
(6:10 PM) John: beyond description
(6:10 PM) AEN: oic
(6:10 PM) John: not a form of mundane samadhi
(6:10 PM) AEN: icic
(6:10 PM) John: i have already wrote to him...told him not to be despaired. :)
(6:11 PM) AEN: despaired by what
(6:12 PM) John: because he will have to struggle with the conceptual layer for now and when he go deeper, he will not understand what is he going to experience
 (6:12 PM) AEN: Leonard says:
i feel sad again .
AEN says:
oic why
Leonard says:
because of life ...
AEN says:
what happen
Leonard says:
i wonder if it is my karma to be born so poor....and not rising .
AEN says:
it is by karma but nothing is fixed
Leonard says:
i tried to do more good deeds - but everything is still quite bad.
Leonard says:
i tried to take things easy but still am in a very sad state.
AEN says:
oic..
Leonard says:
how about u ?
AEN says:
but contentment is the greatest wealth.. u can learn from the monks..
Leonard says:
i feel i am in a non-compassion state ...
AEN says:
oic
Leonard says:
no compassion for me resides in this world...
(6:12 PM) AEN: oic..
(6:12 PM) AEN: actually wat u mean by struggle with conceptual layer
(6:13 PM) John: it is difficult to explain to u now...after ur exams.
(6:13 PM) AEN: haha ok
(6:14 PM) John: compassion is for the herds, understand u just simply exist.  That is enough for now.
(6:15 PM) AEN: icic
(6:15 PM) John: tell him that. :)
(6:15 PM) AEN: ok
(6:15 PM) John: rest his mind first....this is his current stage.
(6:15 PM) AEN: icic
(6:16 PM) AEN: Leonard says:
u know what ... i somehow think its all a lie ...isnt it ? Sleep is best isnt it ?
(6:16 PM) AEN: lol
(6:16 PM) John: lol...then sleep!
(6:16 PM) AEN: ok haha
(6:17 PM) John: don't laugh but know the danger of not having a qualified master, this can be the case.
(6:17 PM) AEN: oic.. as in become like him
(6:17 PM) AEN: ?
(6:17 PM) John: yeah
(6:17 PM) AEN: oic
(6:17 PM) AEN: then u leh? lol
(6:18 PM) AEN: as in got like that in the past?
(6:18 PM) John: lol...i have go beyond that. :)
(6:18 PM) AEN: oic
(6:18 PM) John: gone
(6:18 PM) John: last time not exactly....i have some guidance
(6:18 PM) AEN: oic..
(6:19 PM) John: but as I progress, i know it is difficult. :)
(6:19 PM) John: initially it doesn't matter really, whether u r hinduism, buddhism or taoism.
(6:19 PM) John: but until a certain level, it is really important.
(6:19 PM) AEN: icic..
(6:19 PM) AEN: important to ?
(6:20 PM) John: to go into buddhism to understand its teaching
(6:20 PM) AEN: icic..
(6:26 PM) AEN: Leonard says:
life is terribly depressive when u are poor and weak .
(6:29 PM) John: socially conditioned....so we must be able enough to satisfy the physiological needs first.
(6:31 PM) AEN: ok
(6:37 PM) John: when is ur ambition?
(6:39 PM) AEN: u mean what
(6:40 PM) AEN: not exactly sure. probably IT line. hehe
(6:40 PM) John: hah?
(6:40 PM) John: lol
(6:40 PM) AEN: i mean
(6:40 PM) John: very tough...
(6:40 PM) AEN: u mean, what is ur ambition
(6:40 PM) John: yes
(6:40 PM) AEN: icic
(6:40 PM) AEN: how come v tough
(6:42 PM) John: by the time you come out, it will be tough. :)
(6:42 PM) John: for me it is ok..coz i am sort of quite ok now.
(6:42 PM) John: not so much into technology
(6:43 PM) John: does ur family know that u r so into buddhism?
(6:44 PM) AEN: dunno
(6:44 PM) AEN: lol
(6:44 PM) AEN: shld b
(6:44 PM) AEN: be
(6:44 PM) John: lol
(6:44 PM) John: how is ur result?
(6:44 PM) AEN: exams?
(6:45 PM) John: hmm....academic achievement
(6:45 PM) AEN: not so gd for mid year
(6:45 PM) John: lol...kok ur head....
(6:45 PM) AEN: lol
(6:46 PM) John: just go for the basic needs and do not deviate from dharma. :)
(6:46 PM) John: don't waste this life.
(6:46 PM) AEN: ok
(6:46 PM) AEN: basic needs?
(6:46 PM) AEN: as in?
(6:47 PM) John: means no need to go for multimillion dollars strife. :P
(6:47 PM) AEN: hahaha
(6:47 PM) AEN: ok
(6:47 PM) John: go for few thousands per month can liao.
(6:47 PM) AEN: icic
(6:49 PM) John: earthing82 is not a theravadin right?
(6:49 PM) John: earthing82 is now a theravadin right?
(6:49 PM) AEN: yea
(6:49 PM) AEN: u know he used to be from ren cheng?
(6:49 PM) AEN: brb
(6:54 PM) AEN: back
(6:55 PM) AEN: earthling82 is now more to theravadin but i tink open to all traditions
(6:55 PM) AEN: have u read the thread where he commented about ren cheng
(6:55 PM) John: nope
(6:55 PM) AEN: actually he left ren cheng bcos of certain misunderstandings with the guy who wrote the essay i sent u
(6:55 PM) AEN: icic
(6:55 PM) John: ic
(6:56 PM) John: misunderstanding then leave?
(6:56 PM) AEN: and maybe some other issues not too sure
(6:56 PM) John: ic
(6:56 PM) AEN: but theres alot of misunderstanding between them
(6:57 PM) John: ic
(6:57 PM) John: not to be too involved in such activities.
(6:57 PM) AEN: but he's not from my side.. so i also dunno much.
(6:57 PM) AEN: kk
(6:57 PM) John: how much sites are there in ren cheng?
(6:58 PM) AEN: mainly 3, but i tink 5 centers... one is the nuns side, the other is li zhu lao shi side (my teacher), and the other is another english dharma teacher's side
(6:58 PM) AEN: (the latter 2 are lay teacherS)
(6:58 PM) John: ic...appointed by ur shi fu?
(6:58 PM) AEN: ya
(6:59 PM) John: when ur shi fu passed away?
(6:59 PM) AEN: 1996
(6:59 PM) John: oh...
(6:59 PM) John: in samsara, everything is going through a process of disintegration.
(7:00 PM) AEN: i heard he intended to die at 92, but bcos of so much problems he had to 'take on' certain karma from his disciples.. he died at 78. anyway 10th anniversary taking place a month later but i tink i cant attend.. exams
(7:00 PM) John: ic.
(7:01 PM) John: how do u know whether dharma is the correct path or not?
(7:01 PM) AEN: wat do u mean
(7:01 PM) AEN: oh
(7:01 PM) AEN: hmm..
(7:01 PM) AEN: i tink the only sure way is through own experience
(7:01 PM) AEN: ?
(7:01 PM) John: :)
(7:01 PM) John: lol
(7:02 PM) John: first take faith...then practice with authentication.
(7:02 PM) AEN: icic
(7:03 PM) John: actually it is important to experience the "I AMness"
(7:03 PM) AEN: oic..
(7:04 PM) John: i find that people having such experiences have more profound understanding of the teaching of Buddha if they are able to humble themselves down.
(7:04 PM) AEN: oic
(7:04 PM) John: Because these are the people that are in the best position to tell if they go beyond that stage...
(7:04 PM) John: it is a natural progression.
(7:04 PM) John: and Buddha I would say knows this problem and is one that has gone through similar process.
(7:05 PM) AEN: oic..
(7:10 PM) AEN: did u talk to truth?
(7:10 PM) John: nope...next month. :)
(7:10 PM) John: why?
(7:10 PM) AEN: orh just wondering.. u said u wld talk to him
(7:10 PM) John: after i settle some of my stuff.
(7:10 PM) John: :)
(7:10 PM) AEN: icic
(7:11 PM) John: just want him to get back to dharma. :)
(7:11 PM) AEN: oic.. u guess he not on path now? lol
(7:11 PM) John: he should be back now....but needs to be stronger. :)
(7:11 PM) AEN: oic
(7:12 PM) John: it would be a waste.
(7:12 PM) AEN: icic..
(7:23 PM) John: wah...eckhart now become like a world teacher.
(7:23 PM) AEN: haha y?
(7:23 PM) AEN: yea true
(7:24 PM) AEN: his books are v popular... wonder how come
(7:24 PM) AEN: but also nice to read la
(7:25 PM) John: writing from personal experience and very inspirational. :)
(7:25 PM) AEN: oic..
(7:27 PM) AEN: gtg.. cya
(7:27 PM) John: cya


before that:



Session Start: Wednesday, August 02, 2006

(6:44 PM) John: a sincere monk is mostly better than a lay....progress faster. :)
(6:45 PM) AEN: icic..
(6:46 PM) John: the site u send me through email is good.
(6:46 PM) AEN: oic..
(6:46 PM) AEN: wat exactly is good?
(6:46 PM) John: very clear about the stage.
(6:47 PM) John: to me...much better than ven sheng yen description of stages.
(6:47 PM) AEN: oic... how come
(6:47 PM) AEN: sheng yen's description not yet complete?
(6:48 PM) John: that is my opinion only lah...u will have to find it out urself. 
(6:48 PM) John: but the tong san one is very very clear.
(6:48 PM) AEN: oic..
(6:49 PM) AEN: but anyway wat do u tink of the author of the site? wanderling
(6:49 PM) AEN: u read tong san works b4?
(6:49 PM) John: nope...i mean the one u send me...
(6:49 PM) AEN: oic
(6:50 PM) John: sorry...heheeh....tung shan...
(6:50 PM) AEN: orh kk
(6:51 PM) John: actually 2-5 is a matter of engaging into activity...
(6:52 PM) AEN: oic as in
(6:52 PM) John: whether one engage into activities and take the vow, the enlightenment remains the same.
(6:52 PM) AEN: icic..
(6:53 PM) AEN: so 1 is already 3rd level presence?
(6:53 PM) AEN: and 2-5 is refining in terms of experience?
(6:53 PM) AEN: or as in engaging into activity
(6:53 PM) John: activity...path is diff
(6:53 PM) AEN: oic
(6:53 PM) AEN: wat u mean
(6:53 PM) AEN: path is diff
(6:54 PM) John: like theravada and mahayana
(6:55 PM) AEN: oh, so u mean the 5 stages is more along mahayana path?
(6:55 PM) AEN: hmm ya true i tink it mentions bodhisattva bhumis
(6:58 PM) John: no one remains the same even for a moment.  After the 2 stage, one will not just remain the same like that even without taking the vow.... still engagement in activities just 
that path is diff.
(6:59 PM) AEN: 2 stage as in tozan's one?
(6:59 PM) John: yeah...
(6:59 PM) AEN: oic
(7:01 PM) John: actually the first stage is like "I AMness"
(7:01 PM) John: until the deepest aspect
(7:01 PM) AEN: yup
(7:01 PM) John: read all my msgs to longchen
(7:02 PM) John: i kept emphasizing the manifestation not the source
(7:02 PM) John: the manifestation is the source, spend not even a moment of thought for the source.
(7:02 PM) AEN: icic..
(7:03 PM) John: the stage is the real within the apparent
(7:03 PM) AEN: oic...
(7:03 PM) AEN: eh
(7:04 PM) John: i think i wrote to u about telling longchen to dissolve the self in the incredible realness of the phenomenon world right?
(7:04 PM) AEN: they never write correctly i tink
(7:04 PM) AEN: icic..
(7:04 PM) AEN: yea
(7:04 PM) AEN: by PM right?
(7:05 PM) John: hm...yeah....i wrote him another pm after he has a glimpse of it.  
(7:05 PM) AEN: oh not sure whether u sent me
(7:05 PM) John: What about the unmanifested is the manifest?
(7:05 PM) John: din send u. :P
(7:05 PM) AEN: oic
(7:05 PM) AEN: manifest is unborn?
(7:05 PM) AEN: all dharmas are unborn
(7:06 PM) John: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unmanifested is the manifestation,
The no-thing of everything,
Completely still yet ever flowing,
This is the spontaneous arising nature of the source.
Simply Self-So.
Use self-so to overcome conceptualization.
Dwell completely into the incredible realness of the phenomenal world.
(7:06 PM) John: the last sentence is very important.
(7:06 PM) AEN: o icic
(7:07 PM) John: when is the part i told him about just the happening and spend not even a thought moment for the source?
(7:08 PM) AEN: in the forum?
(7:08 PM) AEN: wat u mean
(7:08 PM) John: yeah
(7:09 PM) AEN: icic
(7:12 PM) John: The evil ones and the heretics cannot discern him. Even the buddhas and the patriarchs cannot lay their hands upon him. Were anyone to try to indicate his mind, [it would be  
no more there than] the horns of a rabbit or the hairs of a tortoise that have gone beyond the farthest mountain.
(7:12 PM) John: actually after the 2nd stage...already like that...
(7:12 PM) AEN: oic..
(7:13 PM) John: therefore i might be looking the hairs of a tortoise
(7:13 PM) John: :P
(7:13 PM) AEN: hahahaha
(7:13 PM) John: this is the 4th stage...ahahah
(7:13 PM) AEN: icic
(7:13 PM) John: i m looking for someone that can write about this. :P
(7:14 PM) AEN: about what
(7:14 PM) AEN: The evil ones and the heretics cannot discern him. Even the buddhas and the patriarchs cannot lay their hands upon him. Were anyone to try to indicate his mind, [it would be  
no more there than] the horns of a rabbit or the hairs of a tortoise that have gone beyond the farthest mountain. ?
(7:14 PM) John: actually can't be written lah
(7:14 PM) John: got to meet up.
(7:14 PM) AEN: ?
(7:14 PM) AEN: icic..

(10:13 PM) AEN: there??
(10:13 PM) AEN: http://simpo.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=insight&action=display&thread=1154268689
(10:13 PM) AEN: bob replied
(10:13 PM) AEN: lol
(10:14 PM) John: :)
(10:15 PM) John: If longchen hasn't gone beyond this stage, then he really has to work hard.  But out of respect...hehehe he might not say anything.
(10:16 PM) AEN: what stage?
(10:16 PM) AEN: might not say anything on what
(10:16 PM) John: what bob has said...
(10:16 PM) AEN: oic
(10:17 PM) John: if he still linger in the thought realm, then quite jaliat liao.
(10:17 PM) AEN: but he isnt rite
(10:17 PM) John: no lah
(10:17 PM) AEN: icic
(10:17 PM) John: but now he will still fall back...coz not stabilize yet
(10:17 PM) AEN: but bob is still in the thought realm
(10:17 PM) AEN: oic
(10:19 PM) John: the website like not that eventful. :P
(10:21 PM) AEN: haha yea
(10:21 PM) AEN: one year ago longchen told me
(10:21 PM) AEN: he and some others actually participate in a secret forum
(10:21 PM) AEN: of enlightened ppl
(10:21 PM) AEN: i tink bob, him, dianah, and others all in that forum
(10:21 PM) AEN: maybe that forum more lively but i dunnu where is it
(10:21 PM) AEN: ol
(10:21 PM) AEN: lol
(10:21 PM) John: :)
(10:22 PM) John: longchen knows what he experience is a lil beyond what bob can tell him now...
(10:22 PM) AEN: oic..
(10:23 PM) John: anyway he has to stabilize a lil...
(10:23 PM) AEN: icic..
(10:24 PM) John: stabilization is dependent on one's effort
(10:24 PM) John: and his yuan...
(10:24 PM) AEN: oic..
(10:25 PM) John: whatever i wrote to him is real for i know the consequences of misleading him at this juncture. :)
(10:26 PM) John: i hope he can treasure it. :)
(10:26 PM) AEN: icic..
(10:29 PM) John: by the way, where is the concept when a baby is first born?
(10:35 PM) AEN: concept of ?
(10:35 PM) John: of ur head...when a body is first born, what got concept...:P
(10:35 PM) AEN: a baby is much purer bcos v little concepts, but is still ignorant
(10:35 PM) AEN: haha ya
(11:04 PM) AEN: http://simpo.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=insight&action=display&thread=1154268689
(11:07 PM) John: :)  hehehe....i think out of courtesy. :P
(11:07 PM) AEN: icic
(11:09 PM) John: but i hope he knows the distinction of emptiness before perception and manifestation as a concept. :)
(11:10 PM) John: manifestation is not a form of concept but is the nature of consciousness (that is emptiness) that requires a mind that is before symbols and labels.
(11:10 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:10 PM) John: however he needs to stabilize it because he kept falling back to it even after the glimpse. :)
(11:10 PM) John: he will need 3-4 yrs. :)
(11:10 PM) John: 2-3 years
(11:11 PM) John: coz the seed is already inside. :)
(11:11 PM) John: that is why i din write to him. :P
(11:11 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:11 PM) AEN: din write to him ?
(11:11 PM) AEN: about?
(11:11 PM) John: this period is important for him to go on his own.
(11:11 PM) AEN: oic
(11:12 PM) John: u notice that i always write to him whenever he has doubt and queries?
(11:12 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:12 PM) John: in forum as long as he has relevant doubt, i always find time to answer him....
(11:12 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:13 PM) John: but after the seed is planted....it will have to let it grow itself through his own effort because in such a juncture, it cannot be in the form of words anymore.
(11:14 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:14 PM) John: when someone ask zen masters what is buddha's nature....its the tile, rocks...
(11:15 PM) AEN: yea
(11:15 PM) John: feel the hardness, jumps...
(11:15 PM) John: it is exactly that
(11:15 PM) John: experience anything...
(11:15 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:15 PM) John: everything...
(11:15 PM) AEN: oic

(11:16 PM) John: i reading thich nhat hanh no death, no fear. 
(11:16 PM) AEN: icic u bought the book ?
(11:16 PM) AEN: which books u bought
(11:16 PM) John: quite good...though the expression not that accurate
(11:16 PM) AEN: on what
(11:19 PM) John: on his understanding
(11:19 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:20 PM) John: but it is not easy for longchen to go beyond the thought level...
(11:20 PM) John: i kept emphasizing this to him...
(11:20 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:21 PM) John: when the 'self' is gone, there can be no thought.
(11:21 PM) John: in whatever tradition, we have to go beyond that.
(11:22 PM) AEN: oic
(11:23 PM) John: however i also know that bob will answer. :)
(11:23 PM) John: and his answer is so.
(11:23 PM) AEN: haha
(11:23 PM) AEN: oic
(11:23 PM) AEN: lol
(11:23 PM) John: :)
(11:37 PM) John: By the way, there are potentialities and tendencies and by taking thoughts, we actualized it.  Actuality is always known, the source is ever unknown.
(11:38 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:39 PM) AEN: wat kind of tendencies
(11:40 PM) John: karma are tendencies, becoming is a form of tendencies, impermanence, emptiness
(11:40 PM) John: if u tell longchen, he will have a glimpse of it. :)
(11:40 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:41 PM) John: but that will set him into thoughts again which is what i don't want.
(11:41 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:41 PM) AEN: but he will eventually know la
(11:41 PM) John: yeah. :)
(11:41 PM) AEN: icic
(11:42 PM) John: the seeds should now be strong enough
(11:42 PM) John: he must touch it wherever he is.
(11:42 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:49 PM) John: See deep silence as flow,
See form as emptiness,
See actuality as tendencies,
See solidity as flux. :)
(11:49 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:50 PM) John: reply to bob. :P
(11:50 PM) John: eheheheh
(11:50 PM) AEN: i reply?
(11:50 PM) AEN: o ok
(11:50 PM) John: but tell him thanks. :)
(11:50 PM) AEN: ok
(11:51 PM) AEN:
Thanks for your reply...

See deep silence as flow,
See form as emptiness,
See actuality as tendencies,
See solidity as flux.
(11:52 PM) AEN: like tat
(11:52 PM) John: yes. :)
(11:52 PM) AEN: okie
(12:15 AM) AEN: gtg.. cya
(12:16 AM) John: cya
(12:16 AM) John: :)




Sim Pern ChongAdmin
Wah.. so long..haha. and quite long ago too 😁 The Plotinus website is by Alice, she is a mystic of the Rosicrucian Order. She is Egyptian, if i remembered correct.
I use to participate in their secure forum.. Dianah and Bob were in the forum as well. For a period of time, many years ago I practiced the method given by Dianah.. That was the 'most psychic oriented' period. Some of the experiences are actually very helpful, especially 'going straight' into the Pre-rebirth Realm.
Together, with the Buddhist Stages of Enlightenment, they provided a larger perspective of the workings.
    Soh Wei Yu
    Author
    Admin
    Sim Pern Chong Can you elaborate on "Some of the experiences are actually very helpful, especially 'going straight' into the Pre-rebirth Realm"
    You mean remembering past lives?
    Sim Pern ChongAdmin
    Soh Wei Yu It is actually not remembering.. it is being in the dimension 'prior' to additional layers/processes are generated to create the in-between/astral and the physical experience.
    Just an analogy.. it is like, there are rooms within room. When the physical experience/sense room is deconstructed, there is a 'slightly bigger' in-between/astral room which is mainly the grosser mind and emotion. For the pre-rebirth experience, the physical senses are fully suspended, following by the mental/emotional 'in-between/astral'. and then with the '2 rooms' temporarily deconstructed/suspended.. the bigger Pre-rebirth realm is experienced. This realm is simply the result of all the experiences of this 'being'. It is not awakened at the time of the experience.. but it also not just a collection data center too.. it is a causal 'dimension'.
    My opinion is that whatever insight there are, got to actually 'penetrate' and turn the 'understanding' in that dimension.. otherwise the old ways of processing will continue... aka rebirth 😆
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  • Yin LingAdmin
    So Long until when I click “continue reading” it cannot load? Lol
    Soh Wei Yu
    Author
    Admin
    Yin Ling strange.. i can read
  • Five Ranks of Tozan commented by John Tan in 2006
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Five Ranks of Tozan commented by John Tan in 2006
    Five Ranks of Tozan commented by John Tan in 2006
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    Yin LingAdmin
    Soh Wei Yu ok thanks!
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